Credit card mystery

[Ann]

We recently returned from almost 4 weeks in France, including 2 1/2 weeks in the Dordogne with a rental car. Our American credit cards with chips worked everywhere (even the autoroutes) except for the Leclerc and Carrefour gas stations in Sarlat and Souillac, although there was no problem with the cards inside the stores themselves. At first I thought it was because there was no attendant on duty at Leclerc, but then the cards were also rejected at Carrefour, which had an attendant on duty so we would have been able to sign. Does anyone know why this would have happened? Thanks for the help, and aloha, Ann

 

[flennie]

I can't answer your question but I'm glad to know that your American chip and signature card worked at gas stations in France. It's only for a few days but I will be driving a rental car there in October. What bank is the credit card associated with? I have Chase Sapphire Preferred card which is thicker than the average credit cards and the gas dispenser at my local gas station does not take it.

 

[Roz]

Ann, is your chip card a chip and PIN, or only signature? We have found we needed a card with a PIN at some of the unattended stations. I have the Andrews Visa chip and PIN card, which has always worked at those stations.

 

[Ann]

Hi, Roz and Flennie. The cards are issued by Citibank, which I just called. You're right, Roz, they're chip and signature, so Citibank is sending us PINs to use if necessary. It was interesting that the cards didn't work even at the attended Carrefour station, although they worked at other unattended stations.

 

[Roz]

Ann, I hope Citibank understands that you need a PIN for use in the machines in Europe, and they are not just sending you a PIN to use in an ATM for a cash advance. I know many US cards do have PINs for that type of use, but I don't think those would work in the European payment machines. Or, just as bad, they might charge you interest on the purchase, even if it did work, as they do if you use the credit card to get cash. I don't know if your everyday customer service rep would be aware of the PIN cards in Europe.

 

[Ann]

Roz, I specifically explained the situation in Europe and was assured that the PINs would enable use of our cards there as well as the withdrawal of cash advances from ATMS -- gee, the rates are usurious! I will double check again tomorrow with a supervisor -- and remember to take our Andrews card as a back-up. Flennie, you may want to check out the Andrews card, since it doesn't impose currency transactions fees.

 

[Ann]

Roz, I think you're right, and not the Citibank rep. I did some research and found that US chip and signature cards are not configured for offline transactions, in which the card is validated without a real-time connection to the bank -- as is the case at unmanned gas stations (and some that are manned, as at Carrefour), train stations, etc. Moral of the story: always carry my Andrews chip and pin card!

 

[Roz]

Interestingly, when I used the Andrews card any place that did offer signature purchases, that's what it defaulted to, even when most European cardholders would have used the PIN. But it was very reliable in purchases where PIN was the only option.

Flennie, if you want to apply for the Andrews card, here is the website with info on their cards. When I got mine, several years ago, there was only one option, but I see that now there are several. It did take quite a while to get the card, and required a lot of information that most other cards I have did not. So unless they have changed that, you may want to start the process soon if you decide to get the card.

 

[Andrew]

Some travel-related cards from Barclays are also chip and PIN but signature-preferring. I have the Aviator card, giving American Airlines miles; the default Red card has an annual fee but I've gotten it waived at renewal. There's also the Arrival Plus, which waives the fee the first year. Neither has a foreign currency fee.

 

[flennie]

Roz, thanks for the link. I will look into applying for one. Being able to use the chip and signature card at automated kiosks in France is a real mystery. Three years ago I was pleasantly surprised that I could buy a carnet for the Paris metro using my Chase chip and signature card. Who knows if it will work this time.

 

[Ann]

Flennie, our chip and signature cards worked fine to buy carnets for the Paris metro.

 

[Sojourner]

The reality is that the USA is not in line with the rest of the world when it comes to card technology. Without getting into an argument/discussion of why this is the case, the only thing that matters is the impact this has on a traveller from the USA.

To put it in simple terms, anyone who has a true chip and PIN card will not have any problems. Anyone who has a chip and signature card (even if it also has PIN capability) will sometimes have problems. Just when and how you will encounter a problem cannot be covered in a few examples.

So unless and until the USA banks get in line with the rest of the world, USA based travellers are going to have to live with it unless they insist on getting a true chip and PIN card from those few issuers who do have them. It's up to you to 'vote with your feet' as the saying goes.

 

[aap519]

Sojourner That's pretty accurate. I have no problem with my chip & pin card in Europe, but the acceptance of my chip & signature card is sporadic.

It's not only the banks that set the technology behind in the states, but retailers were upset about the cost of updating their equipment to accept chip technology. Even today, I still run into major retailers in the states who haven't updated their equipment to accept chip technology. A few did a half ass job of updating their equipment, where you can use chip technology if you are doing a credit purchase, but you need to use the magnetic strip for a debit purchase.

 

[Sojourner]

I use Canadian and UK banks aap519, so I do not have to worry about USA banking practices. But I do think Americans should look at the world around them and decide whether they are getting a good deal from their banks or not.

Not only is not having a true Chip and PIN card a pain for a traveller from the USA but it also means you are still at greater risk AT HOME of having your card cloned and having to deal with fraudulent transactions on your account, than everyone else in the world is.

 

[misstravelbug]

Absolutely, if you travel to Australia you need a chip and pin card. Any purchase over $100 at a retailer requires you to enter your pin. For amounts smaller than that you can use the tap technology. It must be so frustrating for you as a traveller!

 

[Ann]

I don't want to leave the wrong impression -- the acceptance of our chip and signature cards was more than sporadic. They worked on the autoroutes and the Paris Metro, for example, where people have reported problems in the past. The only places they didn't work were the gas stations at Leclerc and Carrefour, and there was no problem at smaller gas stations. Still, it would be nice if American banks decided to join the rest of the world!

 

[Cameron]

I searched for chip-and-pin cards here in the US, and came across this article for the top cards with no foreign transaction fees. I don't know this website (they must get a kickback for the links to the banks -- but, out of personal info protection, I don't click on such links). I recommend going directly to the respective bank websites to verify the info with each credit card provider.

 

[Sojourner]

There are various websites that list cards Cameron but one thing I have noticed is that often they list a card as being Chip and PIN when in fact it is a Chip and Signature card with PIN capability. That is not the same thing as a true Chip and PIN card. The issue is whether it defaults to signature or only to PIN. If it defaults to signature, then it will be subject to sporadic non-acceptance.

It can be as simple as a clear in a store simply not knowing how to deal with a card that defaults to signature. It doesn't matter that there IS a way for the card to work, if the person you are dealing with doesn't know how (or can't be bothered) to deal with it.

If you look at the third card on the list you linked, you will see it says, "This card allows users to continue using their signature, but also has the option to set a PIN for those international purchases." So it is not a true Chip and Pin card. The question is whether the others listed are or are not also. I find some USA sites listing cards do not differentiate and so can be misleading. Someone thinks they are applying for a Chip and PIN card when in fact what they will get is a Chip and Signature card with PIN capabilities. Not what they wanted.

Even some bank's own sites do not make it clear which they are offering.

 

[flennie]

I just went through a cumbersome process to join Andrews Federal Credit Union and was approved for their Chip and PIN credit card. However, it's not clear to me if it's a real Chip and PIN card. It says EMV Chip and PIN enabled. What does that mean?

I went to investigate on their website. Below is what the credit union say about their credit card. It sounds like it's a Chip and PIN or Signature card. Not Chip and PIN only.

EMV Information

Wherever your adventure and life take you, your Andrews Federal card will be there to help you pay for the necessities and the fun stuff too. Here's how it works:

• Chip and Signature versus Chip and PIN cards: Chip cards can be chip and signature, chip and PIN, or a combination of both.
• How to use your card in the U.S.: Simply use it as you normally would. Swipe your card, and sign for your purchase.
• How to use your card everywhere else: Depending on where you are, you’ll either use the magnetic strip or the integrated microchip. Some merchants may request a signature, while some merchants may request that you enter a PIN at the time of purchase. For example, purchasing a train ticket at an unattended electronic kiosk will require the use of a PIN, whereas at other merchant locations, a signature may be required for verification.

 

[flennie]

I wrote to the credit union to see whether the cc was chip and pin or chip and signature with pin enabled. This is what they told me:

"It’s both, We can change the order so that it can ask for the Chip and Pin first, but since the card is made in the States we have the card set as to ask for Signature and Pin first, Once your card is issued we can make the change."