France for 23 days

[CJoy]

This will be my second trip to France and my husband's first. Ive been to Paris and Provence and it was a pretty short trip.
We have 23 days for upcoming trip (not counting 2 travel days) and I'm really struggling with the itinerary. My first thought is to spend a week in Paris - perhaps breaking it up into two stays with 4 days when we arrive, and 3 days at the end when we fly home. I'm interested in all of France so this will likely be one of several future trips.
I'm definitely interested in some time on the Riviera - Nice, and perhaps Menton which sounds small and lovely. We want to see the Loire valley, and I'm drawn to the Alsace region - Strasberg looks magical. Would prefer not to have a car but are open to it. We definitely don't want to be doing a lot of stop and go. Four days in one place would be the shortest stay we would do. I realize it is quite a distance from Stroudberg to Nice so would love advice on getting to and from etc. Every time I do any exploring online I find other areas that look incredible. Would appreciate thoughts from folks who've done a fair amount of travel in France.

 

[Ian Sutton]

Others will have more specialist knowledge, but my thoughts are:

1. Landing in a place you've been before can be a very good idea. That bit of familiarity helps ease the cultural shift. So a thumbs up for Paris, even though jetlag can be easier to handle in the countryside.
2. Personally I'd avoid breaking Paris into 2 stops, as that's an extra transfer, extra packing/unpacking of bags/ extra check-in & check out. All the worst bits of holiday. So I'd suggest giving it 5-8 days on arrival and seeing all you'd want to see.
3. From Paris, I'd look to 'let the train take the strain' and seek a good solid (and enjoyable) direct train journey, where you can pack a picnic and maybe a bottle or half bottle of wine, and really relax and take in the views. Almost 'the longer the better', so if Nice is direct, that might be a good option.
4. From there I often try to think in terms of each additional leg having its own distinct identity, e.g. from capital city to beach and then onto a rural retreat or up into the mountains, or moving into a 'road trip' segment with a hire car. That's even coming through in your thoughts of Loire and Alsace (rural & mountains)
5. I like your broad aim of min 4 days in a location. Enough time to get a feel for it and find your bearings, and usually there are plenty of day trip options as well. Perhaps the ideal would be 4 locations, with ~ a week in each, though an extra location should not feel out of the question at all.
6. All the above is basically saying I think you're on a good track of thinking!

Q. Which time of year? That can make such a difference, as cities can be grim in summer, but shine when it's cooler.

 

[CJoy]

Thank you Ian - yes - you have me with #4 - really excited about the difference in regions. We leave on Aug 23 - return Sept 18. I realize August is not the ideal time to visit but that’s our window. Thank you for your thoughts

 

[phirhon]

One of the things we enjoy about our trips to France is the differences between the regions. This is apparent in the landscape, the materials used for the buildings - the stone buildings in the south, the tiled roofs in Provence, the slate roofs in northern areas, the golden stone of the Dordogne, the red and white of Basque country to name a few-, the differences in the churches - big square bell towers, elegant spires, ' clocher murs ' with several bells -, and of course the regional foods.

Some people advise heading straight to your furthest base and working back to be in Paris at the end, or at least for the last night. That is an individual decision. We do not fly in and out of Paris very often, so not a decision we make.

Unfortunately I cannot help with the logistics of your trip as we always have a car. We pick up on the day we arrive and drop off the day we leave. We stay in places for at least a week, sometimes two and self cater. But we also have more time than you do. We try keep the distance between bases to a couple of hundred kms.

One thing I will say is that if you expect that this will be the first of this sort of trip to France, you may want to consider places that are closer together rather than travelling long distances from one area to the next. For example, if you are going to the Cote d'Azur where you can use public transport, you could then pick up a car and road trip to and around Western Provence, maybe across to Albi and Carcassone, and train back to Paris from Toulouse. If you are prepared to forego the Riviera, you could have a lovely trip in the Loire Valley, Burgundy and the Alsace. This would probably be more a trip with a car though.

There are lots of trip reports here that may give you some inspiration. We love travelling to France and have never had any difficulty filling our time, even in areas that do not get mentioned very often on travel forums.

Happy planning.

 

[Colo]

I am a big supporter of flying into one city and exiting from another. In fact, many times I have found it cheaper. The airport at Nice is super simple! Clear passport control, pickup bags, and there is a tram that takes you right downtown. Our apartment was 1 block off the water and 3 blocks from the tram station.

Did a blog back in 2019 on our trip: Nice 2019

 

[Ian Sutton]

a

I am a big supporter of flying into one city and exiting from another. In fact, many times I have found it cheaper. The airport at Nice is super simple! Clear passport control, pickup bags, and there is a tram that takes you right downtown. Our apartment was 1 block off the water and 3 blocks from the tram station.

Did a blog back in 2019 on our trip: Nice 2019

and if Nice is an option for the inward flight, the fresh air / coastal location is often a good setting for recovering from the flight.

 

[Georgia & Zig]

Thank you Ian - yes - you have me with #4 - really excited about the difference in regions. We leave on Aug 23 - return Sept 18. I realize August is not the ideal time to visit but that’s our window. Thank you for your thoughts

Paris may be as far south as you would want to go in August. I would head further north!

 

[CJoy]

One of the things we enjoy about our trips to France is the differences between the regions. This is apparent in the landscape, the materials used for the buildings - the stone buildings in the south, the tiled roofs in Provence, the slate roofs in northern areas, the golden stone of the Dordogne, the red and white of Basque country to name a few-, the differences in the churches - big square bell towers, elegant spires, ' clocher murs ' with several bells -, and of course the regional foods.

Some people advise heading straight to your furthest base and working back to be in Paris at the end, or at least for the last night. That is an individual decision. We do not fly in and out of Paris very often, so not a decision we make.

Unfortunately I cannot help with the logistics of your trip as we always have a car. We pick up on the day we arrive and drop off the day we leave. We stay in places for at least a week, sometimes two and self cater. But we also have more time than you do. We try keep the distance between bases to a couple of hundred kms.

One thing I will say is that if you expect that this will be the first of this sort of trip to France, you may want to consider places that are closer together rather than travelling long distances from one area to the next. For example, if you are going to the Cote d'Azur where you can use public transport, you could then pick up a car and road trip to and around Western Provence, maybe across to Albi and Carcassone, and train back to Paris from Toulouse. If you are prepared to forego the Riviera, you could have a lovely trip in the Loire Valley, Burgundy and the Alsace. This would probably be more a trip with a car though.

There are lots of trip reports here that may give you some inspiration. We love travelling to France and have never had any difficulty filling our time, even in areas that do not get mentioned very often on travel forums.

Happy planning.

This is exactly the advice I need - thank you. I need to look at concentrating on areas that are not too distant from each other. Carcassone looks wonderful.

 

[CJoy]

Paris may be as far south as you would want to go in August. I would head further north!

Yes - hot and crowded further south I expect. Paris will definitely be the front end of our trip for this reason.

 

[chachalaca]

Hi CJoy, what a great trip you have planned! You already have some of the most valuable advice ever given and I can echo everything everyone has said. With the exception of not going further south than Paris - I kind of like that hot, roaring Mistral wind in my hair: it lets me know I'm in on vacation .

FWIW our travel times are locked into June-August and while Paris is full of tourists in August, the rest of France is full of French tourists (especially Parisians) - and it is what it is. You'll still have a lovely time, meet lovely people and enjoy every minute.

I'd also like to add that Carcassonne is a destination of two differing opinions on these boards. There are those who find it a "must visit" and others who find it "lovely to look at" but from a distance site. Do your own research, and if you find you really, really want to visit, try to book a room inside the old walled city so you can be there when the hoards and hoards of tourists go home for the night. It is difficult to see the beauty and simplicity of the architecture when you cannot even make your way through the streets. A "know before you go" mindset can eliminate a lot of disappointment, right? So if you're okay with the crowds, and the Disney-esque-ness of souvenir shops full of plastic swords & shields then go whenever. But if that will break your heart, try to arrive later, stay the night and have dinner, walk the walls and periphery in the morning and head out soon after. I am not trying to rain on your parade, just give you food for thought. I cannot think of a more magical view, however, than of seeing Carcassone in the distance on the approach! Someone here can tell us the best angle of approach, I cannot remember.

Happy planning,
Laura

 

[CJoy]

Thank you Laura - more excellent advice. What you describe sounds very similar to our Toledo experience-we only did a day trip and it wasn't my favorite. I’ll definitely consider your tip about possibly over- nighting . I’m glad I have a lot of time to research carefully.
I’m not overly concerned about the heat either - we did Spain in August and September.

 

[CJoy]

I am a big supporter of flying into one city and exiting from another. In fact, many times I have found it cheaper. The airport at Nice is super simple! Clear passport control, pickup bags, and there is a tram that takes you right downtown. Our apartment was 1 block off the water and 3 blocks from the tram station.

Did a blog back in 2019 on our trip: Nice 2019

I’ve thought about that. I will look into it thank you!

 

[Colo]

I agree with most who have commented that the Côte d'Azur, as most of Southern France, can get pretty busy in August. How about shaking it up a little. Fly into London and catch the train to Portsmouth. The train ends right in the quays of Portsmouth. A lot to do in the port including a great Naval Museum or maybe a short ferry ride to the Isle of Wight. Great Bike Riding - No car is necessary.

Then catch the ferry across the channel to Cherbourg and rent-a-car. Normandie is extremely easy to drive in. Head down the coast to Mont-Saint-Michel. From there head south to the Lorie and drink wine and see castles! Then back North to Rouen spend a couple days – very cool city.

Dump the car I Rouen and train into Paris. Get your fill of the of the city before catching the train to Strasbourg. Another very cool city with lots to do and see. Try to save time for a day or two for a trip to Colmar. From there fly out of Strasbourg back home. I think you will find economy airfare starting around $750. If JFK is your departure city. Not sure where you are departing from.

The secret for us has been not to overbook things to do and see while visiting a place. No matter how well you plan you will not be able to see everything. Just enjoy where you are when!

Just a thought

 

[CJoy]

Thank you Colo. Well I have considered fying into London as I have not been there in years and have some friends I would love to see. It appears it can be cheaper than flying into Paris and there is a direct flight from Portland, OR. I would have to talk my husband into a few days in London as his first encounter with the city (last time we were there) was not great. The place I chose for us to stay was in a very hectic, busy area and he was not feeling well at the tail end of our trip. He came away with a not so good impression. I love London and have spent a fair amount of time there as this is where my mother hails from and I'm a dual National. We lived in Oxford for a few years when I was a child.
Also after thinking things over a bit due to some of the advice I've gotten here (thank you travelers!), Im not married to the far flung destinations in France I first threw out here. I'm going to do some reading and then decide on 2 or 3 regions that we can spend some time in.

 

[Cameron]

I'll be in Paris for a full month this spring. Pre-pandemic, I went 1-2x year to Paris (and other parts of France).

It's easy to drive in France, IMHO, but the trains make it so easy. Since you have an interest in the Côte d'Azur, you don't need a car for visiting the coastal villages along the train route. It's very easy to train from Cannes to Menton, and all the stops in between. We always enjoyed a base in Old Antibes, then train to Nice, etc. as the trip is cheap and short. If you want to go to St Tropez (I've been 3x by car, it's not on the train line, and the traffic jams going into it are too much for me to recommend it in high season).

To visit the hill villages, you can rent a car at the Antibes, Nice, or other train stations for a day or two. The cost may seem high, but you won't have to worry about parking (moving it a lot) during your stay in a base village.

The train from Nice to Avignon or Aix-en-Provence is a very easy trip. You could rent a car in a Provence base and drive to all the lovely villages in the area.

In Paris, the rental rates are now astronomical. There are many factors contributing to the price of apartment rates (energy costs have soared, demand is higher, etc.). You may find a better deal by being in Paris in one stay, for a lower rate, than breaking up your time there. Just a thought--you'll want to research if it makes a difference.

You can easily train to Strasbourg, Colmar, etc. out of Paris. For the Loire, though, you'll probably want a car. I plan to do train daytrips when I'm back this year, but I'm staying a month, so my "nightly rate" for a monthly rental is low enough for me to stay somewhere in a hotel for a night or two without feeling like I'm stretching my budget, if I decide to do more than a daytrip.

Wishing you well with your planning! IMHO, you can't go wrong in France.

 

[CJoy]

Thank you Cameron for this - since I last posted we’ve changed our idea on where we are traveling. We are visiting Paris, Normandy, and the Dordogne. The plan is to combine train and car. I have yet to work it out but I’m thinking of 1 or 2 bases in each region. Train from Paris to Normandy and then rent a car. Then either car or train to Dordogne and train back to Paris. We plan on staying in Guest houses. We have a couple more days than I originally posted - so 25 days.

 

[Parigi]

I come to this thread very late. Everyone has given you great advice.
For your first week, in August, yikes, may I suggeste a week in the Basque country, a beautiful region where the temperature is always cooler than the rest of the country. Ciboure, St Jean de Luz, Sare, Bayonne, all are good bases, being beautiful towns with good eats and a nice sea breeze. And yes crowded but not crazy-crowded like the rest of France. What Freda Cameron and I liked to do down there was to drive to Spain, to San Sebastian, for lunch. Think of the French Basque country and Spanish country as one geographic and cultural unit. Oh, Freda never forgave me. She had to leave early. We drove her to the Biarritz airport, then decided to go to San Sebastian for lunch, and RAN INTO ANTHONY BORDAIN !
Second week: A good base would be the Lot, one of the most beautiful corners of France, and never crowded, and not that far a drive from the Basque country.
September is a marvelous season. The holiday frenzy is over. Wonderful fruits are in season, not to mention the more than a dozen types of mushrooms crowding the markets.
Have you thought of Brittany for your 3rd week? My base would be le Port de Dinan. Not only is it beautiful and the city of Dinan full of great eats, markets, restos, but it is also in a region with a graet concentration of beautiful spots and villages (St Suliac, Dol de Bretagne, Saint Malo, Cancale (oysters!), Cap Fréhel).
3 main bases, sandwiched by your arrival and departure buffer days, 2 days each.
Oops I left out Alsace. I love the region. Its summer tends to be muggy-hot. Later, say, in October, the region is marvelous.
You can google info and images on these towns and villages I mentioned:
Ciboure
St Jean de Luz
Bayonne
San Sebastian
Sare
The Lot region (we love Cenevière, Calvignac, Marcilhac sur Célé, and many other rivierside villages)
Le Port de Dinan
Dinan
Saint Suliac
Saint Malo
Cancale
Dol de Bretagne
Cap Fréhel.
This reply is a bit of a wrench.
Whatever you do, you will have a grand time.

 

[CJoy]

Hi Parigi - thank you for the response. Well we nailed down our plans and here they are :

5 nights Paris

Train to Rouenne , 5 nights there

Train to Bayeux , 4 nights there

Train to Bordeaux - rent car and drive to
our Dordogne base for 7 nights.

Then train to Paris - (maybe via Sarlat)

4 nights and then home


Any thoughts from folks are welcome.

 

[Parigi]

Good route, congratulations.
A small suggestion, mainly about when to pick up car

"Train to Rouenne , 5 nights there"

Do you mean Rouen ? Or Roanne?
I don't know Roanne.
I love Rouen. I like to
- go to the fabled old cathedral
- get a walking map from the Office du tourisme, across the street from the cathedral
- have a nice meal,
- take an afternoon walk on the old town,
- end in the great musée des Beaux Arts to see its very good impressionist collection,
- then run back to take a last look at the cathedral, painted by Monet at all hours, which I will have just admired in the museum.
I myself make this a day trip from Paris, but as you are off on a travel loop, of course you need not do this.
I think if you don't have a car, a 5-day stay is long for Rouen.

"Train to Bayeux , 4 nights there"
Again I find a 4-night stay a bit long for Bayeux. Are you choosing it as a base to see the battle beaches?
I suggest
- 6 night in Rouen
- Take train on a day trip to Trouville/Deauville
So far you can do these visits comfortably using the train.
- Pick up car on 3rd day.
In the next few days you will have ample time to visit the battle beaches and the beautiful villages of Le Bec-Hellouin, La Bouille, Beuvron en Auge, Beaumont en Auge.
You can also move your base to nearer Bayeux, but personally I find Rouen has more beauty and other interests to offer as a base.
In addition, as others on this thread have mentioned, one thrilling thing about traveling in France is to see the change in architecture and landscape from one region to another. There is not much change of landscape or cuisine or architecture (Bayeux having suffered more has fewer beautiful old houses standing) from Rouen to Bayeux.
Lastly, I personally hate repacking-unpacking and would choose one base for such a short distance as between Rouen and Bayeux.

"Train to Bordeaux - rent car and drive to
our Dordogne base for 7 nights."
If you have picked up a car already in Rouen, you can drive from Rouen to Bordeaux, or to a vineyard b&b - a charming experience - near Bordeaux,
Rion
St Emilion
Both are pretty wine villages with its share of vineyard b&b.
I just came back from a trip to Brittany/Normandy, a region I have revisted many times, and had a perfect 8-day stay.

On the drive between Rouen and Bordeaux, the village of Montrésor is a perfect mid-point, sort of, for a rest and a picnic.

If you have a couple of days "saved" from the Normandy part of your trip, I would add the days here. Perhaps 2 nights in a vineyard b&b near Bordeaux, then the rest in Dordogne.

Then train to Paris - (maybe via Sarlat)

There is no train from Sarlat to Paris.
And as much as I love the pysical outlook of Sarlat, I have been frightened by how overrun it is on market day, which you should try to avoid. The crowd noise makes a din that bounches back and forth among the buildings and is deafening. And you can't see much of the beauty of the village anyway because it isobsured by all the similar touristy food stands.
As a base, I recommend the nearby village of Limeuil or St Léon sur Vézère, both listed Plus Beaux Villages de France.
One experience you must try is a ferme-auberge, a farm-restaurant combo. I recommendeded some to fellow slowtravellers and they have been going back every since. The cuisine is simple but the food can't be fresher. Many of these ferme-auberges, besides raising their own ducks and lamb, make their own farm-fresh foie gras.
It is not for pickky eaters as it only serves food that it and its neighbor farms produce. Don't expect a menu that goes on and on for pages and pages, but expect all to be fresh and good. There are several outstanding ones in that region. Auberge du Peyrol and Auberge Les Tilleuls leap to mind.
Don't eat the day before.

 

[chachalaca]

Oh my word, Joy! Do not pass up Parigi's suggestion of eating at a ferme-auberges - it will likely be your most memorable and favorite meal. If you're unsure of where to go, ask her because she really knows and is a gracious sharer.

Laura