How People Travel

[Pauline]

This is a bitchy post but I have to talk about this! We recently were visited by friends from Canada who were doing their first European trip since they were in their 20s. They are both retired. With all my Europe travel experience, you would think they would talk to be about how to plan their trip. No.

Flew from Canada to London Gatwick.
Rented a car and drove immediately after the flight (first time driving in UK) to Yorkshire. Spent 4 nights visiting a friend. Could not remember the name of towns they visited.
Returned car at Gatwick, bus to Heathrow, flight to Barcelona.
Spent 2 1/2 weeks in Barcelona, staying weekends with friends in Barcelona and staying somewhere else in Northern Spain on the weeknights. So back and forth to Barcelona for 3 weekends. Loved one place they stayed in a hiking area but didn't even tell me about the other places they stayed.
Flew to Seville. Spent a few nights there.
Flew Seville - Madrid - Heathrow.
Rented a car and drove to Salisbury for 1 night (my suggestion, so they could visit Stonehenge - they didn't).
Drove to Dorset for 4 nights. Stayed a 45 minute drive from us even though I sent them a list of places nearby. Did not talk to me before booking and booked with a non-refundable price so it could not be changed. Sent me wrong dates of their stay which I did not realize until day before they arrived.
Drove back to Heathrow (stopping in Avebury on the way - my suggestion!!), dropped off car, bus to Gatwick, night in hotel, flight home the next day.

Mistakes in planning:
Do one stopover in the UK, not two. Combine the Yorkshire and Dorset visits.
Try to book flight in and out of same airport in UK. If can't do that, then pickup car at one airport, return at the other.
Train from Barcelona to Seville?
Do one weekend visit with Barcelona friends, then move somewhere nearby for a week and have them visit you the next weekend.

They ended up doing too much running around, I think.
They picked vacation destinations where they have friends so they don't have to do any planning and friends will show them the sites.
At least they didn't go on a cruise. My other friends just take a cruise so they don't have to plan anything.

Do your non-travel friends travel like this?

I know my friends won't read this because they would never go on a travel forum.

 

[Chris]

Yes, my non-travel friends do travel like this. For months I've been listening to the woman who cuts my hair talk about her plans for her first trip to Italy. I tried so many times to get her to cut back from "if it's Tuesday, this must be Florence," but she didn't hear a word. Next week when I get my hair cut I'll get to hear what went wrong...

 

[joe]

I think that if they come back all smiles and with a feeling of having had a good time, that's what counts. Travelers like these would probably get stressed if they were to travel in "slow" fashion : "What, we aren't going to see that (xxx famous landmark) today? Then why did we come?"
We're not all the same, c'est la vie.

 

[Ian Sutton]

Rented a car and drove to Salisbury for 1 night (my suggestion, so they could visit Stonehenge - they didn't).

Well they said they had a good time over here, indeed here they are enjoying a lighter moment during the trip.

They reckoned one day in Salisbury should have been more than sufficient, although they do hope to return to tick off the finer detail of their trip objective that didn't quite get accomplished on this trip.

 

[Pauline]

I know, I recommended Salisbury before the Russian incident and then did not mention it to them after because they had already booked.

I don't think my friends were particularly happy with how their trip went. One of them listed to me all the ways it was badly planned. It was her partner who did the planning They did not want to see any "must sees", that was why they did not go to Stonehenge. One of them would not even go into Salisbury Cathedral (the other did). They are outdoors people, so I made them do three days of hiking in Dorset!

I know everyone travels differently and wants different things, but I think some people make big planning mistakes because they don't spend enough time thinking about the best approach. Just like everything else in life I guess.

What about the idea of only going places where you have a friend? I have other friends who do this - travel around Europe from friend to friend, never picking a place where they don't know anyone.

 

[Ian Sutton]

Hi Pauline
There is an argument that going to places where there are friends and family makes sense because you get incredible insight, seeing a different (and quite real) perspective. However one should be absolutely sure this doesn't put big stress on those friends / family. It's vitally important to be prepared to organise things yourself, otherwise they start to feel like unpaid tour guides / free lodgings. Find the right balance and it can be brilliant, but get it wrong and there can be genuine resentment.

I'm with them in rebelling against the concept of 'must sees', but then I rather hate being a shepherded tourist. I'm rather happy in a pleasant mundane setting, and prefer it to a bustling famous landmark. I share your ingrained resistance to the concept of cruises.

I fully agree that backtracking wastes precious holiday time, and it's one thing those of us that try to help others often focus on. There is no argument to support that level of backtracking, which is simply bad planning.

I know loads of people that do no planning, but generally that is simply to go to a beach/resort and switch off for a week or two. That makes reasonable sense, though it's not what I like. Some like to just wing it, either following the signposts to the major sites or just doing what takes their fancy as they walk around (e.g. an ex work colleague who barely left the dope cafes in Amsterdam in the time we had there). I assume he was happy, though he did try to sponge off the group which I was appalled by.

In the middle, there are people who won't research as much as many of us here, but like to know a little, even if only to avoid feeling too lost on arrival.

I do enjoy helping people find something right for them, be that on the tourist trail or a long way from it, but also helping them make it an effective plan for what they want.

Regards
Ian

 

[Valerie]

Yes, we get this kind of thing a lot. Either they don't ask if the itinerary will make sense, or they ask for suggestions and then don't take them. We get that a lot; which OK, I can understand if you prefer to take Trip Advisor's suggestion on a hotel instead of the local person who may have really good reason to suggest one hotel over another, or one restaurant over the "highly rated" one...but, I dunno, if you have an experienced traveler or local to give you insights, you should ask them and seek out their wisdom. IMO.

Side note - had some cousins here last month. We spent a day in Rome with them. We were in Piazza della Rotonda and two of them looked at the Pantheon and said, "Ok, nice." and didn't want to go inside. THE PANTHEON!! I dunno.

 

[Sharon J]

Heck Pauline, no one is even interested in picking my brain. They can't even figure out why we continue to return to places we love. The words are, "Again?"

 

[GailS]

In Venice this past September my husband and I were walking between Campo San Polo and the train station. We had stopped to take some photos of a canal where there was a group of 2 couples, also American, who were taking photos. They asked us if we knew what way to go to Saint Mark's Square. We pointed them in the right direction and told them they should cross the Rialto and they should follow signs for that if the see them before following signs for San Marco after crossing. They asked 'What is the Rialto - is that something we'd want to see?"

 

[JustTravel]

Someone asked me on Saturday if the Scalzi bridge was the Rialto (we were at the foot of the Scalzi bridge).

 

[veronicafrance]

Like Ian and Pauline I have an ingrained resistance to the idea of cruises but I think we may be unnecessarily prejudiced. My aunt has been on a couple of cruises recently; she was widowed three years ago and lives on her own, but is an outgoing person who will talk to anyone. For her it was great to have an organised itinerary, know exactly how much it would cost, and to get to know her table-mates and companions on tours. Unlike organised land-based tours, you have a home base so you can unpack once, and if you don't fancy a particular day trip you can just stay on board. Although it was a massive ship, she said it didn't feel crowded and she could always find a quiet space if she wanted. I still wouldn't do it myself, but I can see what the appeal is now.

Next, she's going on a massive coach tour in India, where they drive to a new location about every other day! Now that really does scare me

 

[Sharon J]

Okay, I'm going to admit something, although, I'm embarrassed to admit we have decided to take a cruise in April, 2020. I will be 72, and my husband 74 at that time. We are trying a Viking Small Ship, which is really not that small (950), but small compared to the several thousand passenger ships. We were simply looking for a certain itinerary for areas we had never visited, and didn't feel we could do on our own at this point in our lives. It's only an eight day cruise, starting in Athens, which we have visited, so won't do any sightseeing there. It will then visit Santorini, Katakolon, and Corfu, Greece. Then, Kotor, Montenegro, Dubrovnik and Zadar, Croatia. On to Koper, Slovenia, ending in Venice, where we will then stay in our favorite apartment in Venice for a week. Of course, then on to Sant'Antonio in Tuscany.

Certainly something new for us. In between now and then, we will still be doing our slow travel Already set for Sant'Antonio, Varenna, and Venice for next May/June.

 

[Pauline]

I understand why people enjoy cruises and I would try one myself if the boats were smaller, like those Viking Cruises. I personally like Viking because they were one of my first advertisers on SlowTrav! I tried to convince them to give me a free cruise but didn’t get one.

I think cruises showing you Europe from the sea is an interesting perspective. Isn’t that how some of these port cities are meant to be seen? Especially Greece. I look forward to hearing about your cruise @Sharon J ! Combining it with “regular” travel is a good idea.

But, with Slow Travel you are in with the locals. On a cruise you are with other travelers. For me that is a big difference.

I am over my complete freak out about their trip. It just upset me that it must have cost a lot of money and it could have been so much more fun for them if they had planned it better. We would have had more time with them if they had stayed near us, instead of doing all that driving. Plus the town they picked, Weymouth, is nowhere as nice as where we live.

 

[jobey]

I no longer fly.

I use buses, trains, and boats. Takes longer but you see so much more...and no more 2 hour waits before a flight.

Plus you can be more spontaneous. Just this summer I was due to stay in Brussels. Changed at the last minute to Leuven, and found a wonderful historic place with fantastic architecture.

 

[artnbarb]

Heck Pauline, no one is even interested in picking my brain. They can't even figure out why we continue to return to places we love. The words are, "Again?"

Same here - for many years I went to England and people couldn't believe I hadn't seen it all - and the idea that I might want to re-visit places never even occurred o them.

As many of you know, Art and I usually take a transatlantic cruise back to the states in the fall. It all started years ago when we lived in Italy, I finally go to live my "An Affair To Remember" dream and take a transatlantic cruise, and we've just kept doing it. Since we usually stay in Italy for several months and bring home wine, olive oil and more, we don't have to worry about luggage limits or extra charges. For many passengers the cruise IS the vacation - for us it's just transportation with stops and no jet lag. I will admit that the cruise we just took from Rome to Miami was the most boring one EVER. I was so glad my Kindle was loaded! Next year we're taking a TA our of Barcelona that will have a 2 day (overnight) stop in Lisbon.

@Pauline , I know just how you feel - I always assumed it was my bossy and overly opinionated personality that kept people from asking for travel advice, but maybe ignorance is bliss and people are too clueless to realize their shortcomings. NO one in their right mind would have purposely arranged that itinerary! I know sometimes things don't coordinate like you thought they would, but go back and forth to England was crazy! And transferring between LGW and LHR - no thanks!

 

[Tim W]

Very late to this thread, but it did make me laugh.

Back in May, and old work colleague from South Africa visited us. Before she arrived we asked her repeatedly what she wanted to do, where she wanted to go, what she wished to see - particularly bearing in mind that she was on a limited budget.

The trip proved a disaster for many reasons, but among them the total unwillingness to take any sort of advice of any sort from people who live in the UK, but if her next door neighbour's Aunt Jemima had ever said anything travel related it was to be treated as gospel.

Individual highlights included: A two hour drive to Avebury because "It's so much better than Stonehenge". Thereafter spending exactly 15 minutes at Avebury before asking "Is this all there is?"

Being dropped off in Winchester with a guide book and map - only to phone us an hour later asking to be picked up because she had "Done everything".

Going to Old Sarum and being disappointed because "It was nothing like the book" - referring to some historical novel.

Planning a route from Hampshire to her hotel in London where she was meeting her tour that included two changes of train, three tube lines and two buses - because she wanted to save 300 yards walking from the One train, two tube suggestion from Transport for London.

IT is very sad really, because it caused so much friction that it effectively ended a friendship that had lasted over 30 years.

 

[Pauline]

IT is very sad really, because it caused so much friction that it effectively ended a friendship that had lasted over 30 years.

Travel can be so stressful!

I’ve run into the thing where what anyone else says is more important than what you say. I have a friend who really wants to go to Italy and on the phone with me will talk about someone he knows a bit (he has known me for 40 years) who has been to Italy and how he plans to take her out to coffee and pick her brain about Italy (never asking me anything and he knows I’ve been there many times). Yes, your casual friend will have much better advice than boring old me!

 

[ItalophileNJ]

I have friends who take cruises or Road Scholar trips because they are really not interested in doing ANY prepatory work. I once suggested they take a Context tour that would pick them up at Civitavecchia but SO not interested in art or archaeology. They’re still my friends and I love them. I think that most people are just intimidated by planning their own travels.

As I get really too old to venture off to new places by myself I guess I’ve begun to slow down as I occasionally revisit the places I’ve loved. Especially if I can sit and people-watch.

 

[mortlipp]

I'm late to this thread but reading it with interest given I used ST in 2011/2012 to plan a 12 week trip in Italy and France and took on all the great advice I got here. We stayed in a number of apartments other ST had recommended, the absolute best of them being a gite in Goult where the owners really did not speak English (they had relied on a translation app to communicate with me) but were just the most wonderful people. The slow traveller who gave me the link to their site spoke French and she helped me make enquiries. I wish I could remember her ST name, she may still be on this site.

If it weren't for ST we would not have learned to travel slowly. In our 12 week trip we stayed everywhere for one week and in Goult we stayed 2 weeks. The only short stop over we had was at a B&B in the Loire Valley for 2 nights after leaving our rental in the Dordogne on the way to Paris where we dropped off our lease car. When we went to Thailand in 2015 we stayed 10 nights in Chang Mai and a week in a small family inn out of the main drag of Patong (we were doing a dive course). Our trip to Japan did involve faster travel using a Japan Rail pass as we only had 2 weeks so there were some 2 night stays, but we did have 5 nights in Kyoto. If we were to return I would opt for at least 5 nights in each place.

When planning the 5 week trip to Italy with my sisters in September 2016 I was in charge of the itinerary. They left it to me and trusted my judgement. We had 6 nights in Stresa (not right in the tourist hub but up behind the old town), a week in Lucca, 3 nights in Florence (I was not keen on returning but my sisters wanted to see David and after 3 nights they said they were glad to be staying longer at all other places), 5 nights in Orvieto (and wish we had stayed a week), a week in Positano, and a week in Rome (Trastevere). We all only took carry on (as my husband and I started doing in our 2012 trip and have continued to do) and my younger sister (who had never been overseas) said she still had a few things in her pack that she didn't wear. It was fantastic not to be lugging big cases up into Orvieto or along cobblestones. We travelled by train and bus so having 7kg back packs was perfect. If you ever doubt you can do carry on only have a look at onebag.com and be converted.

I'm very happy to be back on the new iteration of ST so I can run my slow itinerary past some kindred spirits and get honest advice.
Michelle

 

[Tina]

This is a consoling thread because we travel a lot in Italy and more recently Spain and I'm always, let's admit it, a little offended when friends and acquaintances don't ask for any info. Just the day before yesterday a friend told me he'd booked a flight for four nights in Seville which also included renting a car and visiting Ronda and pueblos blancos without asking me for any info or advice. All in just three full days! Oh well.
About cruises, my parents have elderly friends in their eighties who have always travelled a lot, also with a caravan. Neither are in good health. They have recently got equity release on their house and are spending the money on long cruises. Probably they could do with a carer so I think for them the cruises are good because they are served in everything, which is what they need, but they are also still 'travelling'. I don't know how much they manage to see at their destinations but they socialise and have a great time and it beats the TV and a taxi to the supermarket once a week! It made me think.....