Need help on finalising itinerary (first part)

[misstravelbug]

Hi,

we have decided for the first month of our trip in May:

Rome 7 nights
Assisi 7 nights
Tuscany (La Foce) 7 nights

then pondering where to next for 7-9 nights.

Places on our radar are:

Parma, Verona, Torino, Milano, Ascoli Piceno, Florence, Venice, although we are very open to suggestions.

We will still have a car but are happy to drop it off after Tuscany/Umbria and train or keep it.

DH can either fly from Milan or Rome.

(The children and I will be staying another month with my SIL and visiting; Lucca, Rome, SML, ??? so would prefer to keep these out of the option for the first month)


There are sooooo many places I would love to see I just cannot see straight to create an itinerary so I would some expert advice xo

 

[Ian Sutton]

Logistically Verona and Venice are both a bit of a trek eastwards only to immediately backtrack, so I'll focus on the other ideas that feel more natural for Milano (Rome again would cause backtracking).

Piemonte or Emilia Romagna or Lombardia jump out as the regions that are logistically simplest. As you have the car you could certainly handle the odd one-night stay in the countryside with no problem, though I applaud your sense on aiming for week-long stays.

Lombardia
A weak area for me, and I don't like Milano, so I'll let others suggest ideas, though I was told that Pavia is nice a while back (albeit by a person born & raised there).

Piemonte (some ideas)
The Langhe wine region is lovely, but I always fear that there isn't always much for the children unless they love walking (the vineyards are in shared ownership, so open for all to walk through, making for some brilliant walks through vineyards and the odd bit of woodland. Staying in/near Alba or Asti can give the benefits of a fully functining town / small city, but with very good countryside in range.

Torino we've discussed - loads to do, but not much advantage having a car unless you want to head out to the old country palace / hunting lodge or other places outside the city. Splitting the holiday into 4 days here plus 4 somewhere else beforehand is an option. Direct coach from Porta Nuova / Porta Susa stations to Malpensa assuming they still run.

Acqui Terme and around. A nice compact centre with fine weekly market and spa treatments if that appeals. Having a car works here, allowing trips out into the countryside or up to Canelli to see the old Asti winemaking cellars. We stayed a while back in Bubbio in the apartment of Tre Colline in Langa, a lovely agriturismo in an untouristy village. Typically huge evening meals were very cheap and the atmosphere in there is convivial, with almost all the other people being Italian and many would be locals. The food was generally rustic/traditional, but with occasional dishes which really impressed. You will leave the restaurant very full. There are walks locally up single track roads where you rarely see a car, but even if you do, can hear it before it arrives. Castino also quite charming with fine walking, but these are just two places amongst many. The whole of this part of the region has great charm for getting out an walking.

Novara is a wonderful city, barely touched by tourism. The region is great for its food especially the local risotto made with the rise grown locally around Vercelli. Handy for finishing at Milano Malpensa where you could easily drop the car off at the airport and take easy public transport options to Milano and hence onwards to the 2nd half of the trip. For a more rural escape, have a look at Parco Ticino for cycling in a protected area along the river. It's so close to Malpensa that you'll see the planes leaving/arriving. We've stayed before in a lovely Agriturismo (Il Cavenago) in Ghemme, though Ghemme itself isn't especially appealing on the eye (but we really like it). Day trip up to Varallo if you want to see the Catholic church really go to town with its story telling.

Lago Maggiore. Might not be the best use of a car, but financially just using it every other day here would still make it worthwhile. Again ultra convenient for Malpensa airport, as I know you were worried about too long a trip to the airport.

Emilia-Romagna
Parma and Modena are both very appealing and Reggio is nicely understated. However looking at the map, even the western cities seem to take you quite a bit out of your way. I've not been to Piacenza or Cremona, but both will be worth a look.

regards
Ian

 

[joe]

Like Ian, I am always ready with praise for Piemonte - so I would add my recommendation for any part of this region as well. He has suggested some good options - in addition to cycling in the Ticino area, there is supposed to be some nice cycling along the Po river - and here are two other aspects you might consider :

1) a stay at an agriturismo that is an active farm. If you have never done this before, then the time you have available on this vacation certainly makes this a viable option. There is a huge variety of agriturismi, so finding one that would appeal to your family is not that difficult at all. Many of these cater to family needs, and some offer various activities such as cycling, horse riding, mule trips, a pool, cooking classes - quite a range. If the kids have never stayed on a farm, this could add a benefit. Hospitality is usually amazing, and if the host family has kids the same age as yours, then sometimes there are lovely interactions. A stay of a week, using the farm as a base for day trips, would not be too long if you find a good one - but even a "taste" of the experience for 3-4 days would be a good foundation for a possible future trip to Italy. Just for an example, take a look at this one (we almost stayed there, but opted for another one in the end), that also has an adventure park in addition to an organic farm :
http://www.giandriale.com/?p=53
If you need help in finding one, I can expand on how to search.
Our stays outside of cities are always on agriturismi, and we have never been disappointed.

2) take a look at events that are going to take place in the regions you are considering. The regional tourism sites usually have a list of upcoming events. If you see a seasonal event that gets you interested, then this could add a point in favor of the area. For example, the Piemonte list of events for the next few months :
http://www.piemonteitalia.eu/en/eventi.html

 

[misstravelbug]

Ian and joe, thank you so much. Your knowledge and willingness to share it is invaluable. I greatly appreciate all of your help.
I will take a look at all of your suggestions!

 

[Matt D]

I would definitely consider Ascoli high on my list. It is a very unspoiled town and will be refreshing after Rome and Assisi. May could be a bit early, but you can easily day trip from there to S. Benedetto del Tronto for some beach time and fresh seafood. I would change the order of my trip to avoid back tracking and save the north for another visit. The last night near FCO in Ostia or Fiumicino would also make some sense logistically. Good luck.

 

[Ian Sutton]

I'll second Joe's recommendation of Agriturismo accommodation - we'll usually go for apartments or an Agriturismo, but wherever possible an Agriturismo that has apartments! We've also been very happy wtih Agriturismi, wit only one south of Bologna that was merely decent/good (ok for a night or two, but nothing much to recommend being there). all the others have been very positive experiences.

I'm interested in your search method Joe - we tend to use Agriturismo.it but also keep an eye out on google maps for agriturismi not listed on the aggregator site - any other good places to look?

The other site I would add in, which prides itself in finding the quirky / eclectic but friendly, is Alisdair Sawday / Special places to stay. There isn't massive coverage, but they do dig out some very genuine gems.

Events? Oh yes. We can't always time the trip to hit an event / festival, and sometimes what's on doesn't appeal, but some have been utterly memorable and it's quite unusual for non-Italian tourists to be at some of the smaller ones, so you often encounter a surprised but very hospitable welcome. Oddly we've had a remarkable hit rate when not looking for events, including stumbling across a car rally, evening street music festival and a flag throwing procession, plus quite a few firework displays. One of my favourites was All souls night on a foggy evening in Ferrara - utterly atmospheric.

 

[Ian Sutton]

p.s. watching the stages of the Giro d'Italia can spark more ideas - the overhead shot of Tortona (Piemonte) looked rather appealing with a modest castle perched on a reasonably large wooded hill, pretty much bang in the centre of the city. Another that would be worth a look, and logistically very nicely placed for the parting of the ways at Milano. Later on today they passed Vercelli and the rice fields before starting the first climb of many to come next week, when the mountains are showcased including Stelvio.

 

[joe]

I'm interested in your search method Joe - we tend to use Agriturismo.it but also keep an eye out on google maps for agriturismi not listed on the aggregator site - any other good places to look?
The other site I would add in, which prides itself in finding the quirky / eclectic but friendly, is Alisdair Sawday / Special places to stay. There isn't massive coverage, but they do dig out some very genuine gems.

Those are indeed the better of the search options that exist out there - you can add agriturismo.net and even Trip Advisor as sites that can present some useful information regarding agriturismi. Agree with you about Sawday.

There are also sites that can suddenly pop up in a more in-depth search that puts an emphasis on a specific region or interest. Some of these might be slightly out-dated and quirky, but nonetheless can potentially offer some surprises. Just to give a few examples (I don't have an ordered list of these - maybe I should put one together) :
http://bio.tuttogreen.it/bio/elenco/agriturismi/ (a list of organic farms)
http://www.turismoverde.it/guida.php?COD_PAG=613
http://www.ghironda.com/rubriche/agritur.htm (a regional list of the Occitan valleys - many small regions have a local organization that promotes them)
http://www.agriturismievacanze.it/

There doesn't seem to be one best way to embark on the hunt - but by comparing the information from various sites, and using good judgement based on how the info is presented, one can usually come up with many good options. A good agriturismo will have learned the what and how of presenting their ID so that their farm will hopefully stand out among the many businesses offered. A site with honest guest reviews is of course a bonus.

 

[Ian Sutton]

Really appreciate the wonderful suggestions Joe, Italy is never simple, but that's what we accept for its charm!

I certainly tend to include the local tourist office in my searches, some better than others. Langheroero.it are wonderful for Alba and around, but I also remember seeing a huge file of listings in the Bologna (Piazza Nettuno) tourist office.

regards
Ian

 

[Jabez]

Hi,

we have decided for the first month of our trip in May:

Rome 7 nights
Assisi 7 nights
Tuscany (La Foce) 7 nights

then pondering where to next for 7-9 nights.

Places on our radar are:

Parma, Verona, Torino, Milano, Ascoli Piceno, Florence, Venice, although we are very open to suggestions.

We will still have a car but are happy to drop it off after Tuscany/Umbria and train or keep it.

DH can either fly from Milan or Rome.

(The children and I will be staying another month with my SIL and visiting; Lucca, Rome, SML, ??? so would prefer to keep these out of the option for the first month)


There are sooooo many places I would love to see I just cannot see straight to create an itinerary so I would some expert advice xo

Hi,

we have decided for the first month of our trip in May:

Rome 7 nights
Assisi 7 nights
Tuscany (La Foce) 7 nights

then pondering where to next for 7-9 nights.

Places on our radar are:

Parma, Verona, Torino, Milano, Ascoli Piceno, Florence, Venice, although we are very open to suggestions.

We will still have a car but are happy to drop it off after Tuscany/Umbria and train or keep it.

DH can either fly from Milan or Rome.

(The children and I will be staying another month with my SIL and visiting; Lucca, Rome, SML, ??? so would prefer to keep these out of the option for the first month)


There are sooooo many places I would love to see I just cannot see straight to create an itinerary so I would some expert advice xo

 

[Jabez]

Two years ago we went to the Dolomites for the first time. As beautiful as Switzerland at half the price. You might consider it.

 

[Giulia da Urbino]

Of course I suggest Le Marche (North or South or, if you have 9 days you could split between the two areas... maybe a few days in Ascoli and a few days in the countryside in the North).
And of course I also suggest Agriturismi
If you would like some ideas about Le Marche have a look at Le Marche Photo Blog
Sawday's is my favourite: I've always found great places to stay there... but do not forget the great reviews here on SlowEurope for accommodation!

 

[misstravelbug]

**Have edited this post for clarity...**

You guys are great!
After 50 million google searches and scrolling past gorgeous apartment/villa/farm accomodation and reviews for them, I am slowly refining our itinerary...I need 50 years just to see a minuscule amount of this gorgeous country!

So we are now at:

Rome; Campo dei Fiori, 7 nights- apartment
Umbria: 6 nights...but...[can we do a day trip to Ascoli Piceno from here or is it too far and too much to see?]
Tuscany: La Foce 7 nights.
Fano; 5 nights...do you think more/less here? I have found a gorgeous villa to stay in.

then the options open up...

1. Ascoli Piceno 3 nights
Fano 5 nights
Bologna/Florence 2 nights (DH flies from here and we take the train to Venice).


2. Fano 5 nights
Bologna 1 night (drop car back, hop on train, eat a nice meal here to scope it out for the next trip)
Turin 3 nights
Milan 1 night (DH flies from here, only flight to Singapore is 11am, hence staying the night)

I would love any comments you have.

Thanks MTB xo

 

[Giulia da Urbino]

Umbria: 6 nights...but...[can we do a day trip to Ascoli Piceno from here or is it too far and too much to see?]

Where about in Umbria?
Anyway I'd stay in or around Ascoli for a few days instead of driving from Umbria
May I ask why you chose Fano? If you like to stay on the coast I'd probably suggest Senigallia even if it's a bit further South... Consider that if you wish to visit Urbino and other hilltop towns in Northern Le Marche, driving from Fano can be a bit long.

I'd skip Turin... too much travel time for 3 nights
Ascoli - Fano - Bologna looks like the best option to me

 

[Ian Sutton]

You probably know how much I love Torino/Turin. Definitely my favourite city in Italy, probably my favourite city I've visited anywhere in the world. However... I have to agree with Giulia, as fitting Torino in is forcing a single night stop in Bologna, which is a fine city in its own right. If DH can get a flight out of Bologna, then I reckon that is a much better option.

Bologna restaurant suggestion: Sette Tavoli, via Cartoleria 15/2 tel +39 051 272900. Different Italian cuisine features on the menu every week, keeping the chef fresh, a very good wine list and tables outside on a very quiet backstreet

Bologna wine bar / enoteca suggestion: In vino veritas, Via Garibaldi Giuseppe, 9F Tel +39 051 339 9332, with wonderfully rustic southern food, very relaxed & welcoming atmosphere and comfortable wooden tables surrounded by the wines.

Bologna Deodorants suggestion: err hang on what!??? I've long enjoyed the unisex spray-on deodorants at Kelemata, with one store on the corner of via Ugo Bassi and Via Guglielmo Marconi, the other on Via dell’Indipendenza, 58 C. They (IMO) do a fine job of recreating natural aromas such as green tea and cardamon, Lotus flower and cinnamon, etc. in their Aromi e Spezie range. Prices are decent, but invariably there is a discount available. Every year I leave one of their shops (also in Torino etc.) with 10-15 deodorants, so you'll appreciate how much I like them.

Bologna Food Shops: The criss-cross of shops between Piazza Nettuno and le due Torri, with Tamburini the grand old dame, are very good indeed, such that the arrival of Eataly to that location rather shows it up in comparison, Eataly IMO being a brilliant supermarket, but these shops are specialists without having to promote the Farinetti's own products. The recent arrival of persistent and invasive beggars should not put you off. On your wandering through here, keep an eye out for (soft) smoked mozzarella (although smoked burrata also very good) which always puts a big smile on my face when I eat it. Via Oberdan also has some very good food shops, but also a large pen shop / stationery store if such things appeal.

The city does also reward walking around its porticoed streets, not just the large ones of Ugo Bassi / via dell'Independenza. Via Farini has some wonderful frescoes on the ceiling of the portico on the south side of the road - well worth a small detour. I quite like via Marsala to stroll along, but exploring will find your own.

More usual sights - Climbing up the single open tower of the due torri is hard work and can be cramped if there are people going both up and down. Worth it though for very fine views (and this from someone who is scared of heights so unable to hold onto the ledge at the top). Basilica di San Petronio in Piazza Nettuno is huge and interesting. A grand scale even if they were instructed to rein back the even more ambitious original design.

Plenty more things of course, one has to save something else for a return visit...

 

[misstravelbug]

Where about in Umbria?
May I ask why you chose Fano? If you like to stay on the coast I'd probably suggest Senigallia even if it's a bit further South... Consider that if you wish to visit Urbino and other hilltop towns in Northern Le Marche, driving from Fano can be a bit long.

I'd skip Turin... too much travel time for 3 nights
Ascoli - Fano - Bologna looks like the best option to me

In Umbria we look like we will be based in Assisi for 6 nights. Or Assisi for 4 and somewhere else for 2.

Then back over to La Foce near Montepulciano as they only accept arrivals on Saturdays.

Fano...I have found a great place to stay, Villa Giulia, that looks beautiful and I thought we could stay here and see Urbino and the coast from this point.

But if we cut Fano (and Bologna) we would have 10 days after Tuscany to go North instead.

Locked in are Rome 7
Umbria 6
La Foce 7

then 10 nights...

Ian Sutton, we will go to Turin as it's calling me, it just depends whether we do it in this first month or the second month instead. One month at a time though!

 

[Giulia da Urbino]

I wouldn't cut Northern Le Marche, I was just wondering why Fano Villa Giulia is indeed a beautiful place, just consider that the nearby beaches are nothing interesting since the railroad runs just a hundred metres from the coast.

In Northern Le Marche there's a lot more to see inland than on the coast (have a look at Pauline's trip report), Urbino is just one of the amazing places that this region has to offer.

Along the coast there's a beautiful area (Monte San Bartolo Park) north of Pesaro and Conero just South of Ancona with dramatic cliffs and beautiful beaches, the rest of the coast is sandy beaches and umbrellas (even if in May, at least they will not be crowded).

 

[misstravelbug]

Thank you Giulia da Urbino, I am not locked into Villa Giulia, it just seemed like a beautiful spot, but there are so many. We won't be that into beaches as I presume it will be too cold still, I will check out the places you suggest too.

DH has to fly from Rome or Milan. I just found out so that does alter my plans a little and the children and I will be off to Venice once he leaves.

Accomodation in Rome, Assisi and Tuscany are now booked...Venice apartment is available and being held for my dates until I can confirm...it's becoming real!!!! I love that feeling.

 

[Mom83]

Where did you decide to stay in Rome?.

 

[misstravelbug]

Mom83, we booked the Via dei Gibbon 153 apartment. Very excited!!!