I love this community. You have given me more good info in a few hours than I could find in days of searching.
I do love Lucca. We have been a couple of times and said we could spend a week there easily. AND they have an Avis location! (We get a good discount at Avis). Torino sounds ideal and I now think this should be our base for a week. Any apartment recommendations? 2 adults.
Flights in/out of Rome are significantly better priced than open jaw or in and out from Milan Zurich or Venice, and are direct from Toronto. So we may be doing a loop rather than in one city and out another, but it does seem to be a bit of a waste of a day to trek back to where we started.
YYZ-FCO
pick up car at FCO and drive direct to Sant’Angelo 7 nights
Drive to Lucca return car - optional 2 nights in Lucca. Or maybe drive all the way to Torino before returning the car? That way we can bring any groceries with us.
Rail to Torino 5-7 nights apartment
Rail to Varenna 2-3 nights hotel
Rail back to Milan 2 nights hotel (Opera)
Option 1:Rail to FCO 1 night before flight home.
Option 2: Rail Milan to Tirano - Chur - Zurich overnight Zurich before flight home. Maybe also stop for a night in St. Moritz so we can explore there a bit before continuing on to Zurich.
Option 1 or 2 really depends on the flights I find.
There are too many short stays for my liking so these may change, and we may do the whole thing in reverse. So many on/off rail means traveling light for sure.
We've had a mixed bag of apartments in Torino, but now do have a favourite in the form of the oddly named Loger Confort on the southern end of Via XX Settembre. It's a superb central location, with good bus/tram options, though note it's a one way street, so returns tend to be on the parallel road to the east. Not much noise, as you're up a small few floors (and there is a lift). It has an added advantage of the staff having an office on (IIRC) 1st floor, so during working hours are available for questions / ideas / assistance.
Residence nel centro di Torino, per chi cerca un affitto temporaneo, in appartamenti signorili finemente arredati. Prenotazione online. Consigliato da Tripadvisor.
www.residencetorino.info
Apartments are a nice size for 2, with good space and decent kitchens. A nice balance between clean/modern, but with enough in the way of older furniture to give it some style.
We did also find a quaint little apartment privately let on via Maria Vittoria at the via Po end. Much more homely, but for a first stay I do think the Loger Confort would be a better option.
Torino
FOOD
Although we've not been since pre-Covid, I suspect most of these will still be there. It's a google map of good food shops etc. dotted around the city. Note that sadly the excellent fruit & veg shop Primizie di Osvaldo has gone.
A map highlighting some of the food shops and restaurants in Torino
www.google.com
It's a city I always love grazing. We'll typically start by getting a tram up to Piazza della Repubblica for the large market, with open-air and covered markets. There's often better quality to be found in specialist shops, but there are a few here that I think are very good indeed e.g. the place selling local nocciole (hazelnuts), the cheese stall inside the covered market. Mushroom selection often good, but we've also encountered an annoying mini cocktail stick in a couple of porcini to hold cap to stem. On the upside the fruit and veg is very seasonal, and that's always a good thing. There's a good bakery nearby as well as a well-priced wine shop that's more functional than fancy. If you enjoy the odd sweet, there's a sweet shop in the covered market that sells some things we like: Ginevrine (traditional coloured sugar sweets) and Latte e Menta (hard / crunchy buttery mint sweets). There's also fish and meat available here, though we've only been to specialists elsewhere on the rare occasions.
If walking back due south, there are a couple of interesting gastronomie in the old town (e.g. one on Via Orfane), but we'll typically swing westwards for a coffee at Al Bicerin!
Via Lagrange has a few places, but it's definitely changing, becoming a little too fancy at times, and hence we lost the superb cheese shop that was there.
On the upside, there seems to be a growing interest in bread in the city, with some fancy bakeries opening e.g. the one at #10 Via Cavour, but others may also be good to seek out
For the more mundane, there are a few supermercati dotted around. All reasonably serviceable, plus there's the place I refer to as the ultimate supermarket (but not a foodie temple as some see it), Eataly. There's a small one on Via Lagrange, but the big one out at the Lingotto is much bigger / more interesting. Lots to choose from, fully priced, but that range can be wonderfully useful. Eating there can be disappointingly 'fast foody', but the food down in the beer shop area always felt a bit more homely.
It is however a city where I'll usually refresh my list of shops on each visit, sometimes from the Golosario annual book, but most often from scouring google maps and identifying stuff that looks new and interesting (e.g. that bakery on via Cavour or angolo dei sapori that was brilliant until they halved the size of it). Definitely follow your nose / trust your feelings and you'll find some great new places as well.
Finally for food grazing... Chocolate. Very much a source of pride in the city, with plenty of prestigious and aspiring shops, some more traditional, some more adventurous, and many covering both bases. The tourist office do chocolate 'tours' I believe, but for me the highlight is a little place in the Crocetta district on via Fratelli Carle called 'Odilla'. It has a lovely traditional charm, and I've loved the way they might spring a new chocolate on me to taste to see what I think.
EATING OUT
Plenty of places listed in the food explorer I linked to, but also many more. Some Italian fast food, but not that many. A smattering of non-Italian cuisines, but only Nurah cafe so far has properly enticed us (I think it had a different name back then as well).
I've not been, but if wanting proper traditional, then C'era una volta (Once upon a time) on Corso Vittorio Emanuele has long had a reputation for traditional (and that includes the decor).
We do like Taverna dell'Oca on via dei Mille. It's not over-fancy / over-fussy and hits just the right mark for us. Husband and wife run, she in front of house (with short hair) and he in the kitchen, plus usually 2-3 other staff. I'd definitely steer you to the signature Goose (Oca) dish with it presented in many different forms, but it is somewhat substantial for a starter.
I mentioned Vitel Etonné, but it's also worth considering other similar 'enoteca' style places (it started as a wine bar, with cellar below) and especially for the early evening aperitivo hour, where places often provide plates of nibbles / a buffet to graze on, free with purchase of a drink. In theory it's an appetiser before eating elsewhere, but some get carried away!
Another good wine bar, that's now more of a restaurant, is Tre Galli on Via San' agostino, with a wonderful wine list included a good smattering of aged bottles (fairly priced as well). The food has highs and lows, but it's a bright and vibrant place.
Finally, a place that's disappointed on later visits, but we still go back, as the quality initially was brilliant, and the concept still feels special. Piazza dei Mestieri is properly tucked out of the way to the north of the interesting via Cibrario in the west of the city on the quiet via Jacopo Durandi (that road not always marked on street maps). It's mostly a self-funded education facility for young adults on the fringe of society, but part of that self-funding (and indeed education), is making bread, chocolate, beer, etc and also running a restaurant, accessed rather oddly through the entrance to the school, but once there, it's got a very pleasant rooftop setting.
