Help Needed Rome to Umbria and back in 48 hours.

[Gina Marie]

I've been trying to figure out how to best tap into the wealth of knowledge here. I am not even sure if I know what questions I have to ask. But I do know that I feel there are people here who could possibly save me a headache or two, some anxiety, or some confusion and frustration.

I am traveling with a friend for a one month stay in Rome, second week of April 2018 through second week of May. We have both been to Italy before but this will be our first time traveling together. We are of the same age (both in our 60's) and in the same state of health and fitness. We've been friends for a few years.

Our itinerary is still taking shape. The idea is to fully enjoy Rome and take day trips out of the city a couple of times a week, returning to our home base in the Monteverde Vecchio. That was the original plan, though we are now giving serious consideration (I think we've actually moved past consideration and into planning mode) - to renting a car for 48 hours, driving through Umbria to get a taste of the hill towns off the beaten path, spending the night somewhere, heading back to Rome at the end of the second day.

As we started pouring over the internet resources for the hill towns, our list grew and expanded into Tuscany, so it looks like we may choose to repeat this same pattern the following week for Tuscany to include Siena and possibly Montepulciano.

It didn't take long for us to compile a list that included just about every hill town with a name on the map in Umbria, each one sounding as alluring as the next. We have a list of ten hill towns that I feel we must whittle down to four or five, covering two/three in each day. It seems that two may be doable, devoting a half a day to each, lunch in one town, dinner in another. Wash, rinse, and repeat the next day.

I would appreciate any opinions about any town you are familiar with, and whether or not you think my perception of time is reasonable to spend exploring the streets and vistas. I have no concept of how large or small some of these towns are, other than I suspect Orvieto and Viterbo to be larger and more tourist oriented. It will be the shoulder season, so I hope to not find ourselves shuffling along in a crowded horde. I also wonder if my thinking is reasonable that Bomarzo and Civita di Bagnoregio may be able to be appreciated in a couple of hours each.
Extra points if you can convince me that we can do it all and do it well!

The towns we have already narrowed down to and have to still trim are:

* Bomarzo - The Park of Monsters
Viterbo
* Civita di Bagnoregio
Orvieto
* Todi
Spoleto
* Spello
Narni
Norcia
* Torgiano -- I've read this is a gastronomer's destination, and that would fit me to a t, and that is why it is on this list.

(* highest interest)
As you can see, we already have maxed out the list of five potential towns. I wonder if we are choosing two or three that may be repetitious in nature and missing one or another that have a vastly different vibe. This is hard!
I am also wondering that Bomarzo or Civita di Bagnoregio are best left to doing on a day bus tour out of Rome and not combined with this car rental/overnighter, thereby opening other possibilities like Orvieto.


I appreciate any helpful advice anyone would be so kind to give.

Gina Marie

 

[Alpinista]

You can do Orvieto as a day trip by train from Rome, so would do that instead of driving. It would also be the highest on that list due to the beauty and uniqueness of the town (check the hours for the underground Orvieto tours, btw).

Having said that, it seems like a very testing thing to try to navigate multiple towns in a short stint. By the time you factor in meal times and afternoon closings, there just isn't much of each day left to see and to enjoy the sights??

We did a loop of several of these towns during a five day stay in Perugia several years ago. The town we enjoyed most (other than Perugia, itself, was Gubbio, which is not on your list). Went to Urbino, Spello, Foligno, Terni, Todi, Deruta, and Fabriano. Had been to Civita di Bagnoregio and Viterbo on a prior trip. Spoleto was a very nice stop with interesting architecture and general character. I'm a history guy, so Viterbo was very interesting (papal history) and also gives you some nice scenic views from the town looking out into the valleys. Civita di Bagnoregio is a stroll-through town, but we bought some great cheese and pasta there to take home.

 

[Gina Marie]

You can do Orvieto as a day trip by train from Rome, so would do that instead of driving. It would also be the highest on that list due to the beauty and uniqueness of the town (check the hours for the underground Orvieto tours, btw).

Having said that, it seems like a very testing thing to try to navigate multiple towns in a short stint. By the time you factor in meal times and afternoon closings, there just isn't much of each day left to see and to enjoy the sights??

We did a loop of several of these towns during a five day stay in Perugia several years ago. The town we enjoyed most (other than Perugia, itself, was Gubbio, which is not on your list). Went to Urbino, Spello, Foligno, Terni, Todi, Deruta, and Fabriano. Had been to Civita di Bagnoregio and Viterbo on a prior trip. Spoleto was a very nice stop with interesting architecture and general character. I'm a history guy, so Viterbo was very interesting (papal history) and also gives you some nice scenic views from the town looking out into the valleys. Civita di Bagnoregio is a stroll-through town, but we bought some great cheese and pasta there to take home.

Thank you, Alpinista, for your reply. The timing is really at the crux of my question. I stayed in Perugia for three days on a prior trip, and spent one of those days visiting Assisi, with a very short visit to Spoleto. I also stayed in Lucca for a week on another prior trip and visited Camogli, Pisa, Portofino, and Santa Margherita Ligure. And I have stayed in Florence for a few days. We do have a day trip to Florence on the schedule for a lunch visit with a friend.

We did have Gubbio on the list, but can't remember why we omitted it, though I suspect it had to do with driving distances between towns and it being the furthest point north . I think we may have considered it as a separate trip.

The friend I am traveling with is open to day trips, but is not keen on the prospect of spending overnight trips away from the rental we have secured for the month in Rome. I understand her point of view. We will each be choosing our own separate itineraries for day trips in and out of Rome by bus or train or guided tour.
On this one particular excursion we agreed to a car rental with an overnighter in order to get to places less accessible by direct train or bus, and for the opportunity to wander at will and get off the main highways, to take in the beauty of the green heart of Italy.

I do know Spello is a must for both of us as is Deruta. I think I left that off the list.

I appreciate your input. I know we have to give this further consideration. In the end serendipity and mood will have as much of say so in our flow, no matter how many months of planning we devote to it.

I am beginning to rethink this approach to the car rental excursion should highlight the scenic drive, a day in one town, a good meal followed by a passeggiata, and the perfect vantage point to salute the setting sun with a glass of vino.

OH! I just remembered another ? about Gubbio that may have been a factor in our putting it on the back burner. We were trying to find out earthquake damage to Gubbio and to Norcia, and if there were any issues to take into consideration.

Thanks again. I appreciate everyone's patience with my using the forum as a sounding board to do my thinking out loud as I try to formulate a vision.

Gina Marie

 

[Alpinista]

Gina Marie, I learned many years ago that there are no bad choices when it comes to travel in Italy, so I know you and your friend will have a great time wherever you travel. I have seen a lot of coverage about the damage to Norcia, but have not seen any articles about damage to Gubbio that I can recall. The ride on the funivia to the basilica is worth the time to get to Gubbio ;-)

If you are looking to avoid "duplicates", I'd probably go with the hilltop views from Orvieto over similar views from Viterbo -- the Orvieto cathedral is spectacular; underground Orvieto is unique; I prefer the feel and atmosphere of Orvieto (and I think the little restaurants are better too). I see this link for bus service from Orvieto to Civita di Bagnoregio that might allow you to fit both into a day trip from Rome?

Spello and Spoleto were nice spots, but we were actually underwhelmed by Deruta (went for the ceramics, but effect was more commercial than educational/artistic). I am a history/architecture person; my wife is a culture and wandering around person -- surprisingly, we continue to keep celebrating wedding anniversaries and travel -- we both found a lot to enjoy in the various cities that our itinerary shares with yours.

 

[Gina Marie]

Gina Marie, I learned many years ago that there are no bad choices when it comes to travel in Italy, so I know you and your friend will have a great time wherever you

This is what I keep saying too, and basically my answer when friends might ask my advice, that where Italy is concerned, it is all a good choice.

The ride on the funivia to the basilica is worth the time to get to Gubbio ;-)

I didn't know about this. I was going to ask you to elaborate, but then I just googled it and watched a couple of videos. Tempting...

Is the pottery in Deruta a bargain, or is it pretty much priced the same throughout the other towns? (I'm assuming it's available throughout Umbria. I got this impression in my wanderings about the net, reading about other towns. I may have very well read it here in a member's post).

Much appreciation,
Gina Marie

 

[Alpinista]

I have to apologize for not having a memory of the prices. My impression was based on the feeling that I was in a souvenir stand the whole time -- I have to admit that I'm not a fan of places such as San Gimignano, Murano, etc. where I feel I'm being surrounded by sales offers, so that may have colored my opinion of Deruta. I would defer to people who have a better appreciation of the quality and relative cost of the products. I'm looking forward to reading about your final choices when you get to that point, BTW.

 

[Steve R.]

We spent a week or so in Umbria several years ago, staying at the Relais San Clemente in Bosco (http://www.relais.it/en/). Beautiful place, but somewhat isolated & it may be out of the way for your purposes I think. At any rate, we toured much of Umbria and I'd think that Todi might be a good choice for your overnight and possibly a place to explore. We toured a small, family run olive grove/frantoia there (thru a tour guide: Alessandra, co-owner of http://www.discoveringumbria.it) that we thought was great & she now has a b&b going as well. Additionally, one of the best Rome bloggers, Elizabeth Minchilli (who does food tours & has food apps), has her "country home" in Todi and so has blogged a lot about the immediate area over the years (I suggest you look at her blog for this and for Rome - http://www.elizabethminchilliinrome.com). We found some great out of the way restaurants & sites thru her posts.

We also loved Umbertide and several other towns, but I think these are too far from Rome & would keep you driving too long for no more gain than Todi. Just my 2 cents. Have a great time.

 

[Ian Sutton]

Personally I'd seek to make use of the car, to visit places that would be a bit more difficult to get to by train. Partly because it's one opportunity that might not be easily available without the car, and partly as it should really cut down on tourist numbers.

I don't know the Umbrian towns/villages, but Montepulciano is certainly nice, though be aware it can get steep in places. The easiest approach is from the bus station end, longer, but shallower. In an act of planning lunacy, I had us getting off the Chianciamo Terme bus as we reached ~ the centre point of the village, albeit on the main road, at the bottom of one of the short but very steep hills... with us carrying full length rucksacks. I think I may have received a few choice words on that short but tough walk up to the apartment. Politian apartments (much admired on the old Slowtrav forum) was our destination and very good it was too. Montepulciano has the advantage of being quite near Umbria, so a shorter distance. Not excessively touristy, albeit very well known - oerhaps the poor train access helps? Very easy to sample the wines in tasting rooms across the town.

Of the places you mention, Norcia would appeal as home of some very special prosciutto, plus it might appeal to go there to aid the local economy hit by the relatively recent earthquake.

One final thought. We love small town festivals in Italy, arguably the smaller the better. Timing the visit to coincide with one of these might make for a very memorable weekend.

Regards
Ian

 

[Gina Marie]

Additionally, one of the best Rome bloggers, Elizabeth Minchilli (who does food tours & has food apps), has her "country home" in Todi and so has blogged a lot about the immediate area over the years (I suggest you look at her blog for this and for Rome - http://www.elizabethminchilliinrome.com). We found some great out of the way restaurants & sites thru her posts.

Coincidentally, I have recently come across mention of her name and blog several times lately. I have done so much downloading/bookmarking/subscribing lately that I have yet to get back to, that I am not sure if she is among those. Thank you for the additional links too.

Of the places you mention, Norcia would appeal as home of some very special prosciutto, plus it might appeal to go there to aid the local economy hit by the relatively recent earthquake.

This was in our conversation this morning, as we feel the same way. I recently read this article and I would love to get in on some truffle hunting.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/...na-umbria-italian-earthquake-tourism-recovery

So, your advice and input has had a positive outcome - we have just this morning made the decision to forfeit one week in Rome for a week's stay in Umbria. We are considering Gubbio as a potential home base, but are still scouring over gobs and gobs of links to other towns.

Our new approach brings new questions. We are wondering if it makes sense to train or bus out of Rome into our new hill town base and pick up a rental car there. Perhaps not picking up the rental car until the second day.

As we researched taking a train to Siena from Rome, it appears that the train goes to Siena by way of Florence first???
This seems counter-intuitive, but it's the best we could make out of it.

Then I read that taking a bus into Siena may be our best option, as the bus will drop us off right in the center of town, whereas we would have to get into the town from the train station. Also, that given the routing option of the train, the bus would be about the same amount of time, but cheaper, though I don't think the cost difference is significant enough to be a deal breaker.

I am wondering if there are other towns where getting there by either train or bus would be an easy option and we could pick up a car rental there. We aren't 100% sold on Siena as a home base. I have never been there, my friend has, but it was way back in the 70's.
We have some more research ahead of us.

Any further input about renting a car in Rome vs. perhaps waiting until we get to Siena or Gubbio or Todi, or any town you may have knowledge about, would be appreciated.

Grazie mille,
Gina Marie

 

[Gina Marie]

also, if my posting is erratic, I apologize. I don't want to muck up the forum. If I should start a new thread, please let me know how to best make use of the forum. I appreciate considerate advice.

 

[Ian Sutton]

Yes, buses seem especially good (and train station locations especially bad) in Tuscany. Plenty of buses went from the same place in Siena, and that was a good location, whereas the train station is a sturdy walk away from the centre.

The location of car hire is a common conundrum:
- If driving out of Rome looks horrific, then hiring from near a destination train station would appeal
- If lugging bags from the car to the train station (and then again on arrival back in Rome) feels grim, then hiring the car in Rome would appeal.

If you can get a bus ('pullman' seems to be the accepted Italian name for such coaches when asking where to find it, though the timetables will still typically talk of 'autobus') direct from Rome to Siena, it might be less comfortable, but potentially the least stressful.

Don't worry, your posts are no more erratic than the thought processes of each of us, as we shape and then reshape holiday plans until they fit right. Sometimes an opportunity of a cheap / convenient flight, idyllic accomodation, or chance conversation can take part of the holiday in a different direction. If it's easier for you to keep it all in this thread, then that's the important thing - it's your holiday

Regards
Ian

 

[Alpinista]

You mention that you've visited Perugia in the past, but thought I'd mention the Sangallo Palace Hotel there which we found very nice and also which was directly across street from the Perugia City Bus station -- which provides service to the cities on your to-do list if you choose bus over rental car. Would this provide a better hub than Gubbio for you (some of my trial searches seem to indicate that buses from Gubbio connect through Perugia)?

 

[Andrew]

I'll make a few hurried comments:

There aren't that many towns with car rental locations in Umbria. You'd mainly be looking at Perugia, with offices at the station, or Chiusi, just outside Umbria. I've seen on the boards that Auto Europe stopped doing business with an office in Orvieto because of poor service there, and that a Foligno location near the station closed down. In Spoleto I don't think there are offices near the station, rather in the industrial part of town, which could be useful if you'd like your focus to be Spoleto and Norcia.

Gubbio is reached by slow, twisty roads, and I wouldn't call it a good base for day trips.

Bus schedules within Umbria are mostly based on commuting to Perugia, and aren't too useful for people who want to make day trips from Perugia.

 

[RachelP]

Spello is my vote.

 

[Gina Marie]

I'm delighted to report that we have booked our properties for Umbria. Four nights April 21-24 in Orvieto, a two bedroom apt in the heart of Orvieto centro storico, followed by three nights in the heart of Spello's center, also a 2 bedroom apt.

I am pleased as punch right now.

We made our bookings through Booking.com, and so far no money has changed hands. I am trying to figure out the terminology used on the site with regard to securing the booking. I have submitted my credit card info but so far no charges show up.

From the site:

Question: Who is going to charge my credit card, and when?

Answer:
You'll be charged a prepayment by the property according to their prepayment policy. You will be charged a prepayment of the first night in the 5 days before arrival.
The property has the right to verify your credit card, and may hold an amount temporarily or until after check-out. This process depends on the property you book with, so it's best to contact them for any charging queries.

Anyone know the ins and outs of using Booking. com? If I understand correctly, no money will be charged to my card until five days before the arrival date. If that is so, why would I ever want to go back to Airbnb or Home away again? Home away wanted $1400 for our deposit in Rome 8 months before our trip.

Anyway, we're onward to car rentals now.

Any advice will be welcome on car rental locations in Rome. We are staying in Monteverde Vecchio if that helps.

I will research this on my own, but it doesn't hurt to go directly to the source of so many savvy travelers. I have read that manuals will save quite a bit compared to automatics, and we are both fine with driving manuals. I read also that economy cars may not be the best for the hill towns, so we are looking at compacts.

24 weeks...so excited.

Again, thank you for sharing your advice.

Gina Marie

 

[Gina Marie]

Anyone know the ins and outs of using Booking. com? If I understand correctly, no money will be charged to my card until five days before the arrival date. If that is so, why would I ever want to go back to Airbnb or Home away again? Home away wanted $1400 for our deposit in Rome 8 months before our trip.

Gina Marie[/QUOTE]

I should clarify, it wasn't Home away, but the owner of the property. Once I realized my erroneous accusation I felt I should retract.

 

[Alpinista]

The only downside of using Booking.com comes when using a hotel -- if any problems or an opportunity for a further discount, the hotel is not the responsible party and you have to deal with Booking.com. Aside from that, I know you will enjoy Orvieto and Spello and wherever you choose to go on your excursions. Congratulations!!