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Help Needed Transportation Options - Dubrovnik, Rome, Siena, Florence

Kathy (Trekcapri)

100+ Posts
Hi everyone: I'm trying to figure out my itinerary for September 2017. My GrapeHops Tour ends in Dubrovnik but before returning back to the US, we'd like to return to Italy (specifically Rome & Tuscany (Siena). I'm traveling with my sister and brother in law. It's their first trip to Europe. To break up the long flight (which my sister cannot do), we are going LAX to NY (spend 2 nights going/1 night on return) then NY to Venice (where we'll spend 6 nights before our tour starts in Croatia. I'm trying to figure out the transportation between stops with less backtracking and travel time.

Itinerary No. 1: Flight from Durbrovnik to Rome (train or bus to Siena for 4 nights) Maybe day trips to Pisa & San Gimignano. Then return to Rome for 5 nights before returning Rome to NY (one night) then back to LAX. My only concern here is that we won't have enough time to catch the train from Rome to Siena on the same day. I did find one flight for $253 which gets us to Rome around 2:20 pm. I'll have to check the bus/train schedule to see if that is workable. But that is a long travel day.

Itinerary No. 2: Dubrovnik to Rome (spend 5 nights) then take train to Siena (spend 4 nights, with day trips to Pisa & San G.) then train to Florence (spend 1 night) before catching a flight back to NY (1 night) then back to LAX.

Any advice will be appreciated. Thank you.
 
Hi Kathy,

Sounds like a great trip! I would probably do option 2. If there are train delays/etc. getting to Siena may be more of a hassle after landing in Rome.

When going from Siena to Florence, you might want to also consider taking the bus instead of the train (or at least the bus was an option when I was in Siena). It leaves from the center of town and as I recall, was a much easier option than the train option from Siena to Florence.

You can also take a bus to visit San Gimginano from Siena. Back before I found Slow Travel, I took the bus from Siena to San Gimignano, stayed the night, and then went on to Florence the next day. Even though it was just an overnighter, I am stayed the night instead of just doing a day trip because San Gimignano is so different at night after the tourists leave for the day.
 
Hi Kathy,

Sounds like a great trip! I would probably do option 2. If there are train delays/etc. getting to Siena may be more of a hassle after landing in Rome.

When going from Siena to Florence, you might want to also consider taking the bus instead of the train (or at least the bus was an option when I was in Siena). It leaves from the center of town and as I recall, was a much easier option than the train option from Siena to Florence.

You can also take a bus to visit San Gimginano from Siena. Back before I found Slow Travel, I took the bus from Siena to San Gimignano, stayed the night, and then went on to Florence the next day. Even though it was just an overnighter, I am stayed the night instead of just doing a day trip because San Gimignano is so different at night after the tourists leave for the day.

Hi Susan, thanks so much. I've been following your trip itinerary plans, which sounds so awesome. I look forward to reading about your experiences.

I haven't been back to Siena since 2005 but I remember how much I loved it and the surrounding area. I was leaning toward Option 2 as well. My original tunnel vision was Rome as the fly out City, but I read something that mentioned a day trip from Siena to Florence. I hadn't realize it was that close to Florence and so I then thought about Florence being the fly out city instead of Rome to avoid back tracking. They'll only see Florence for a day before our flight home, but since they already saw Rome, it might be kind of fun for them to see Florence even if its just to enjoy a nice dinner.

That's a thought about a night in San G. I remember it being crowded during the day so I bet it's amazing at night when the crowds leave. I remember taking the bus from Siena to San G. which was pretty easy to do too. I also considered (since we only have a few days here) renting a car in Siena so we can drive and stop around Tuscany (maybe drive to Pisa). Me and my friend did that in 2005 and I think driving around in this part of Italy would be less stressful than in the big cities like Rome. My sis and BIL are pretty excited. I could easily spend a month here....maybe one day. And thanks for the reminder of those potential train delays. I didn't even think of that. That makes my Itinerary Option No. 1 even more unlikely.

Thanks so much for your thoughts on my itinerary.
 
Hi Kathy
What's the time of the flight out from Florence? It might be that the single night there can be avoided (I find single night disruptive, but tolerate them more at the start of the holiday, or to break up a huge journey)

Plan 2 does have the great advantage of not backtracking, but then it has at least one single night, possibly two.

I suspect plan 1 is doable (it should be - there is a 4.20 pm, 5.20 pm and 6.20 pm leaving Rome, getting to Florence an hour and a half later), however here's a twist in the thinking... The Frecciarossa trains go from Rome to Florence (or Chianciamo Terme) where you'd change for Siena. So what about landing in Rome and getting to Florence for evening / overnight / morning (avoiding the worst of the crowds) before heading to Siena a la plan A, but with Florence breaking the journey?

regards
Ian
 
Hi Ian, thanks so much for your comments and thoughts on my itinerary. You make an excellent point. I haven't yet purchased our tickets yet. I have search Alerts working for me for LAX to NY/NY to LAX and NY to Venice/Rome to LAX. I'll add another alert request for NY to Venice/Florence to NY, while I consider the options and Apartment and Hotel availability for my dates.

Here's another twist. I'm thinking of adding one more night to Florence so we'll have time to at least see the Duomo and have some rest before the long flight back to NY. I'll take a look at the train time tables and different options. You've definitely given me food for thought. Thanks so much for input.
 
I like option 1best. Since there are 3 of you have you considered renting a car instead of public transportation? Easier day trips out of Siena touring Tuscany on your schedule not some train or bus schedule. If you like a small town or find a great restaurant you can enjoy a leisurely meal. Parking is becoming somewhat easier in wine country as these towns are discovering that poor parking prevents tourist revenue.
 
I like option 1best. Since there are 3 of you have you considered renting a car instead of public transportation? Easier day trips out of Siena touring Tuscany on your schedule not some train or bus schedule. If you like a small town or find a great restaurant you can enjoy a leisurely meal. Parking is becoming somewhat easier in wine country as these towns are discovering that poor parking prevents tourist revenue.

Hi Rome Addict, thank you for sharing your input and thoughts on my question. I am leaning toward renting a car to explore around Tuscany with a base in Siena. We're still looking for good airfares. From my airfare alerts, the prices seems to be about the same.
 
Hi Rome Addict, thank you for sharing your input and thoughts on my question. I am leaning toward renting a car to explore around Tuscany with a base in Siena. We're still looking for good airfares. From my airfare alerts, the prices seems to be about the same.
You will probably save up to $100 renting in Rome. Siena car rental averaged $20 more per day.
 
You will probably save up to $100 renting in Rome. Siena car rental averaged $20 more per day.

Hi Rome Addict, thank you for your comments. I'll check out the both options. If the price is not too much more, I'm leaning toward going with renting in Siena, however, if we were to rent from Rome we could save on train tickets. I've driven in Europe before but they have only been in small towns. I'm a bit scared of driving in and out of Rome. But there's always a first time for everything. I'm willing to give it a try.
 
Can you get a flight from Dubrovnik to Florence? The bus from Florence to Siena takes only about an hour and runs frequently. Optionally stay overnight in Florence. Then train or bus to Rome before flying home. Here's some information on the taking the bus/train to Siena (I wrote it a while ago for my sister):


Arriving in Siena by Bus

From Florence (or Rome), the bus is a better bet than the train. You can store your luggage underneath and arrive in the center of town near the main taxi waiting area. There are no reserved seats from Florence (they are reserved from Rome). You want the SITA (or TRA.IN) express (rapide) bus. It’s about an hour from Florence. They leave about every hour (weekend schedules slightly different than weekdays). See http://www.discovertuscany.com/attachments/SITA_Firenze-Siena.pdf, but check with your hotel on the latest schedule (and the possibility of strikes).

The bus may stop a couple of time on the outskirts of both cities. You should arrive (or depart) at Via La Lizza/Viale Tozzi in Siena. It’s a wide street with a center median strip, which is where the bus will stop. Restrooms, unfortunately, are down under the street and accessible only by stairs (There is a good restroom in the Florence bus station). The taxi stand is not far and the sidewalks are smooth for rolling suitcases.

[note: In Italy taxis do not roam the streets picking up passengers. You have to either call them (and they charge from the time they leave the taxi stand) or go to a taxi stand. If someone approaches you somewhere else asking if you’re looking for a taxi, it’s probably a fake cab driver who will scam you, but you probably won’t find these in Siena, but I was approached by a couple in Rome. Taxis are relatively inexpensive (in some cities they charge extra for luggage and for off-hours). If you pay with a large bill, look at it carefully as you hand it to the driver and state, e.g. “this is 50E. Do you have change?” A favorite scam (of the fake drivers) is to claim that you gave them a smaller bill. Don’t be concerned if it seems like the taxi is taking a roundabout route in Siena. Selected streets are closed during selected hours, etc. ]

Turn so that the Excelsior Hotel is on your right and walk up the street. In less than a block, there is a fork where the main street goes right sharply downhill and a short ramp, edged with a marble balustrade, goes left. Take the left up to Piazza Matteotti where you will find the taxi stand, which typically has multiple cabs waiting. Only once did I not find a taxi there, but one came after only a few minutes. There’s no place to sit though I was able to perch inelegantly on a doorstep.

Arriving/Leaving Florence by Plane

The Florence airport is small. When you arrive and have been through customs, just walk out straight through the doors to the walkway in front of the entrance. Turn right and you will see a yellow curb and a small taxi sign facing you at the far end of the walkway (about 50-100 yards). This is where you line up for cabs. There's also a bus, but I don't know about it.

In 2013, I arrived at the airport for departure at 3:15 AM because multiple people at Delta swore that I had to be there by 4:00 (or risk losing my seat). Well, at that hour, the doors to the airport are closed and LOCKED. So I sat outside in the drizzling rain on a hard stone bench waiting for them to open (at about 4:30).

Arriving/Leaving Florence by Bus

The main bus station is across the street from the train station. There is an information office in the bus station, but it closes at 2pm (?) on Friday and doesn’t open again until Monday and the guys at the ticket window aren’t very helpful. (There is also a tourist information office in a building directly across from the train station, but there can be a long wait for service.) The bus station has a waiting room, and a reasonable restroom where a guy will charge a euro or so, give you toilet paper, and watch your luggage. The buses arrive at numbered bays (“binario”) 15-30 mins or so before departure. You put your luggage in the compartment underneath and board. If you look a little helpless, the driver – or another passenger – may help. Double check with the driver that you’re on the right bus. During the week, buses for Siena run every hour or so, less frequently on the weekends. Best to have your hotel confirm the time of the bus, and get there a little early. The weekend bus I took was full.

If you arrive in Florence by bus, you will need to go to the train station to get a cab. Exit the bus station, turn left, and walk a short way to the corner at the end of the little street. The train station will be facing you across a big busy street and up a lot of steps. Carefully get across the busy street, turn right, and follow the walkway at the bottom of the steps until you locate a ramp on your left going up the hill (better for rolling suitcases than the steps). The taxi stand is in front of the train station across from the top of the ramp.
 
Can you get a flight from Dubrovnik to Florence? . . .

Hi Marlene, thank you for sharing your input and thoughts on my options. I had not even thought about going from Dubrovnik to Florence. I will look into this idea. And whether we fly out of Florence or Rome, I very much appreciate the useful links to the bus and the detailed directions. I haven't been back to Florence or Siena since 2005 so I'm very excited about this trip. And of course it's always awesome to be in Rome again.
 
Hope you have a good trip. Siena is my favorite Italian town, but unfortunately the knees can't do the up and down any more. Here's a "Tour of My Siena" that I also wrote for my sister, who was only staying a couple of days. Note that I was there in 2012-13, so there may have been some changes since then.


General references: http://www.sienaonline.com/, http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/717

Overview

Siena is built on a y-shaped ridge system, with the three spokes forming the three major districts (Terzi) of the city. This “tour” is based my two two-week trips to Siena in 2012 and 2013. For the most part, I explored the Terzo di Città, the oldest and most interesting district, so that is the focus of this “tour”.

It is virtually impossible to go from one spoke to the other without returning to the “hub” of the Campo or the “Croce del Travaglio”, the intersection of Banchi di Sotto, Banchi di Sopra and Via di Città. Maps can be deceiving as streets that look like they should continue can just end at the edge of a cliff. A detailed map with all the streets (tutte le strade) is highly recommended.

Roads enter or exit Siena through gates (porte) built into the 14th – 16th century walls, which expanded the city beyond the original 11th century walls. (Schematic map and photos at http://www.basilicaosservanza.it/si_porte.htm#) Traffic is severely limited within the walls. Although the gates make fine destinations for walks, be aware that most or all are down seriously steep hills.

Siena is divided into small neighborhoods (contrade) that date back centuries. Every contrada has its own symbol, piazza, small church, historical archives, meeting place, and/or fountain. https://sites.google.com/site/betsydonnelly/siena'scontradafountains

I start the “tour” at your hotel.

Via Stalloreggi

Exit your hotel, Palazzo Rivazza (http://www.palazzoravizza.com ) at Pian dei Mantellini 34 and turn left. The area you are circling on your right is one of the oldest and most picturesque parts of Siena. A high priority is to wander through it (Via San Quirico and Via Castelvecchio, which I will point out later, are good starting points; not for weak knees!). For now, proceed to the intersection with Via Stalloreggi, which is the small piazza “Due Porte”. The two arches are gates of the old (11th century) walls of Siena. Osteria Nonna Gina is on your left (http://www.osterianonnagina.com/) closed Mondays:

[I ate here many times and liked it a lot. Big portions and not expensive, especially if you share. The pasta with pesto is a specialty, but I couldn’t have it (walnuts). I liked their appetizer plates. They serve a complimentary grappa (or amaretto) at the end of the meal, a nice touch. An easy place to eat alone and the waitresses are very nice. One, in particular, recognized me from 2012 when I returned in 2013! Not unknown, but far enough away from the Campo area not to be a total tourist trap.]

Turn right under the arch onto Via Stalloreggi, and the renowned Pasticceria Bici will be on your right (http://www.pasticceriabini.it/). That is where you should buy some Ricciarelli (A Sienese special almond cookie - yummy!) and anything else you can’t resist. A bit up the street on your left is Ristorante Due Porte http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaura...views-Ristorante_Due_Porte-Siena_Tuscany.html closed Monday:

[I ate here once and like it, but somehow never returned (always ended up at Nonna Gina’s instead). I had a simple salad – just Boston-type lettuce – that was so fresh it was to die for. They have a terrace in the back, though I ate inside. It’s a little more upscale than Gina’s, but not too expensive with careful ordering.]

All along Via Stalloreggi you will see many small artesian craft shops, which are the real thing, although they also have touristy stuff for sale. I took an informal tour of a few of them with my school. Although I did not find them particularly interesting, that may be because my knees were hurting. I think you can just drop in and chat with the folks. Continuing along Via Stalloreggi, you will find one end of Via Castelvecchio (see above) on your right. Almost directly across the intersection at number 44 is the apartment house where I stayed in 2012. A bit further on the right is a little piazza with the Pantera (panther) Contrada fountain. Via Stalloreggi ends at the so-called Quattro Cantoni (Piazza Postierla), the piazza of the Aquila (Eagle) Contrada. From here you turn left to the Duomo, straight ahead to the Campo, or right to circle back to your hotel through piazza S. Agostino.

The Campo

Straight ahead is one end of Via Di Città, which runs down to the Campo and ends at Piazza Croce del Travaglio, where you will find some high-end shops and a mass of tourists. As the main drag between the Campo and Duomo, Via di Città is usually crowed with tourists. It’s supposed to be the most elegant street in Siena, but it’s hard to appreciate with the mob. In a few blocks down on your right, you will see the Caffè l’Accadamia.

[This was “our” bar, the place where we had cappuccino at morning break. It’s a pleasant place with nice people, ok for coffee and pastry or a gelato. I didn’t care for their sandwiches. They have a rest room in the back.]

Across the street is a little alley that goes up to the piazza Duomo (and our school). Further along Via Di Citta on the right is Palazzo Chigi Saracini, where you can rest on the wall (stone benches built into the wall – I know where they all are in Siena) or better yet enter through the arch into a quiet courtyard, where you can also sit. There are a lot of banks in this area, if you need an ATM (as my landlady said: “Siena has a lot of banks but little money”, which sounds funnier in Italian). If you take a left onto Via delle Terme and then a quick right onto Via dei Termini, you will find one of my favorite lunch spots on your left: Enoteca I Terzi, Via dei Termini 7 (http://www.enotecaiterzi.it/en/index.htm ) open 11:00-1:00 (am?), closed Sundays:

[This is a quiet upscale wine bar (with a small outdoor area, though I always ate inside) that seems to appeal to the business lunch crowd as well as a few tourists. It’s expensive if you order a full meal, but they have “plates” for (2013 prices) 10E, which make a nice light lunch, and it’s a good place to sample some wines. There’s no house wine. A good wine by the glass is 5E, with Brunello at 10E. I have to say, I’m not a fan of Brunello. I much prefer a good Chianti, or even a plain Sangiovese, or especially Vino Nobile di Montepulciano, which I love.]

BTW, I think Via dei Termini is a more pleasant way to get to the Terzo of Camollia than Via di Città if you’re headed that way. Back on Via di Città, take one of the steep alleyways on your right down to the Campo (or wait until you get to the end where they are less steep). I’m not sold on the Campo’s reputation as the most beautiful of piazzas. There’s no vegetation and not many places to sit other than the gyp joints around the edges. This is where the palio is run twice a year (
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG0doo0nKNY
).

[The palio not just for tourists. It’s a year-round obsession for the locals with many preparatory and celebratory activities. It’s a no-holds barred race with longstanding alliance and enemy contrade making it almost a team affair. The winner gets to celebrate for an entire year. If you hear drums and music, follow your ears and you might find some kids practicing flag throwing in a piazza or a colorful parade through town. ]

The primary reason to come to the Campo is the museum in the city hall, the Museo Civico in the Palazzo Pubblico (open 10 am – 7 pm) http://www.sienaonline.com/siena_museo_civico.html .

[This is the one indoor place you MUST visit. You’ll see a lot of stuff you’ll remember from art history books. Li and I spent a couple of hours here on our first trip to Italy, and I keep meaning to return.]

Behind the Palazzo Pubblico is a small market area with local (mostly organic) produce. Take the narrow road to the right (or left?) of the Palazzo down into the square. The market itself is no big deal, but I think the square (ignoring the parked cars and trucks) is beautiful. The colorful buildings and their shadows form an ever-changing montage of geometric shapes. I could see part of this square from my bedroom window in 2013.

[Since you’re going in May, you might grab a handful of fava beans (long fat green pods) to eat raw with Pecorino cheese and a glass of wine (remove the beans from the pod and the tough skin around the beans). Or you might want to wait for Pienza where the Pecorino is famous.]

The Duomo

Back at Quattro Cantoni, take the left onto Via del Capitano, which leads to the Piazza del Duomo. Or backtracking on Via di Cità from the Campo, turn right on via Pellegrini, and after a block or so climb the very steep stone steps on your left up to the piazza.

The duomo is highly decorated inside and out. You need to get a ticket to enter. With the short time you have, I won’t fault you if you skip the interior. Its main attractions are the mosaic floors and (my favorite) the Piccolomini Library, which has some really great trompe l’oeil frescos. Opposite the entrance, you can sit on the wall. I recommend doing this around sunset when the setting sun reflects off the gold façade of the duomo. The piazza is also nice early in the morning before the vendors and tour groups arrive. I got to see it like that every day on my way to school at Saena Iulia http://www.saenaiulia.it/ :

[The school is right off the piazza. If you walk under the arch between the duomo on your left and the ticket office on your right, you will be facing some steep stone stairs on your left that go down to via Pellegrini. To your right downhill, you will see an iron gate, usually unlocked. Through the gate and diagonally left across the small courtyard is a door, usually propped open. Through the door is a short flight of stairs down and then turning right a long flight of stairs up to the school. If you want, drop in and say “Hi” to Mauro (director), Elettra and Sabrina (teachers) for me. ]

If it’s a rainy day and you’re looking for something to do inside, there are three other things to visit in the piazza (you can buy a three day pass that includes them all plus the duomo; may be cost effective): SMS Santa Maria delle Scale, the museum dell’Opera del Duomo, and the baptistery. Of the three, the first is my favorite http://www.santamariadellascala.com/w2d3/v3/view/sms2/home--0/index.html

[Another museum where you could spend a lot of time. I’ve only visited some of it. I liked the frescos in the Pellegrinaio (which are well-annotated in English) especially the one over the door with the children climbing up to S. Maria. The daunting stairs kept me from visiting the Archeological Museum (first level). Another reason for me to return to Siena.]

Piazza S. Agostino

Back at Quattro Cantoni, taking the right onto Via S. Pietro brings you down to Piazza S. Agostino and back to your hotel. Via S. Pietro is a nice relatively flat street but it’s open to limited traffic. You’ll see the Pinacotaca Nationale on your left. You can skip this museum unless you have a thing for gilt virgin-and-child pictures (there’s a whole floor of them).

[In 2012, I logged several hours sitting on the wall outside waiting for my laundry to finish (the laundromat is further down the street on your right if you need one) and eating gelati (there used to be a great gelato shop across the street but no more). ]

Continuing, the other end of Via Castelvecchio (almost straight up) is on your right and a bit further Casato di Sopra (almost straight down) is on your left. If you turn left onto Casato di Sopra, Tratoria da Dino (on your right) is a nice inexpensive trattoria http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaura...-Reviews-Trattoria_Da_Dino-Siena_Tuscany.html

[I went here with some classmates for lunch one Monday when other restaurants were closed or full. It was late and the place was almost empty. I liked it a lot (my classmates less so), but it’s another place I never returned to. I had gnocchi and “grilled vegetables” which were not grilled but very good. I usually stick to salads and grilled vegetables in Italy because the Italians like their vegetables cooked to death but this dish of baked veggies was quite tasty.]

At the end of Via S. Pietro, you will see a somewhat sad little park and the decommissioned Church of S. Agostino across the intersection on your left. This place wakes up late in the afternoon when you might see a group of “old folks” chatting on the benches and parents who come with their young children to use the play equipment.

[Go to the far edge of the park and look out over the wall. To your left is a small piazza with church and fountain, which is the heart of the Oca (wave) contrada. To your right, the first apartment house is where I stayed in 2013. Admire my fortitude in climbing the hill. Also, you might get a nice view from here (I don’t remember whether you can see it around the church). The view from my bedroom window, which was in back of the apartment house, was spectacular.]

Back at the end of S. Pietro, straight ahead on Via Mattioli and somewhere to your right is a botanical garden (open 8:00-3:00 weekdays and 8:00 – 12:30 weekends) http://justvisitsiena.com/2014/02/07/orto-botanico-delluniversita-di-siena/ . I never located it, and in any case I was warned not to try it with my knee problems. To head back to your hotel, turn right onto Via delle Cerchia and circle to your right onto Pian del Mantellini. You will pass Via S. Quirico on your right (which you can take to explore the area your have just walked around if you want).

Back at your hotel, enjoy the view and a glass of wine on the terrace.
 
Hope you have a good trip.

Hi Marlene, wow, thanks so much for sharing your tips and recommendations. I was last in Siena in 2005. My trip there is in October. One day I would like to be there for the famous Palio di Siena. I have booked marked this thread and will make note of all of our information. Much appreciation.
 
If you rent a car and want to go to an out of-the-way spot near Siena, consider Murlo. It's a tiny hamlet in the middle of gorgeous countryside with an archaeological museum I've wanted to visit for years (the one time I was in Murlo the museum was closed for renovations; the place is almost impossible to get to via public transportation). I believe there is (or was) a nice place to eat there as well.
 

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