3+ weeks in England - I need help!

[artnbarb]

Yes, it's true I'm not going to England until 2015, but since I LOVE to plan vacations, I'm already starting to think about how long we'll stay and where we'll go. We are planning to go during the summer to have the best possible chance for good weather....and yes, I know there have been many years where summer forgot to visit England at all , and for us, not one but TWO unseasonably HOT, miserable summers, but when you have to make reservations far in advance, it's just a chance we have to take.

I expect England to be more costly than Italy for almost everything - food, lodgings and transport are the three big items that spring to mind, and for this reason I'm thinking 3 weeks might be all we can afford, but as I do more research, I'd love to be able to extend it to 4 weeks, or even (doubtful!) five!

I know I want to spend time in London, so 5-7 days here. Art's never been to Kew Gardens, neither one of us has been to Hampton Court Palace, and it's been so long that I'll probably want to do some very 'touristy' things like visit the Tower of London, British Museum and the V&A. I'd love to have an apartment here and pretend I live in London.

We also want to spend a week in the Cotswolds, and I have to admit that for such a small area I'm really overwhelmed! I have no idea where we should base ourselves! I know we'd like to do some walking, but hopefully not repeat our 1989 trek from Broadway up to the Broadway Tower! (What we thought would be a very short walk turned into a family joke!) There are soooo many cute villages in this area, so how do we pick and choose?

I also want to see Warwick Castle, and I'm not sure when to work that in - should we make a daytrip while we're staying in the Cotswolds? I know it's not easy to get to using public transport, which is why we've never been there before.

So now - the third week! Where to go? If we do only stay 3 weeks then this choice becomes very important, and for that reason I hesitate to travel long distances. If time and money were no object Scotland would be on my list, but I don't know that I want to spend that much time in the car or on a train if there are other areas closer to London/Cotswolds. Kent - the garden of England? Cornwall? I'd also be open to the idea of splitting that last week into 2 different locations.....Maybe I should tell you where we've been before (besides London): Winchester, Salisbury, Rye, Sandwich/Deal, Stratford, Evesham, York, Liverpool, Chester and northern Wales.

So, as you can see, I have more questions than answers, and right now I'm just searching for some direction or theme for this vacation! (One year we did our 'walled cities tour' that included both England and Wales). I'm open to your suggestions! Perhaps something you suggest will compel me to stay another week!

 

[Pauline]

Hi Barb, as you can guess, I have a lot to say about this, but have been busy today, so will post tomorrow.

Are you hesitating at renting a car? If you really want to go to Scotland, it isn't that far away and you could take a train. Use www.thetrainline.com to look up fares. It is much, much cheaper to book in advance.

What types of things do you like doing in England? Gardens, medieval sites, National Trust houses, etc. Do you like the seaside? It seems like you haven't been to Bath?

It looks like you would like to do some gentle walking. It is not that far from Broadway to Broadway tower, but if you go on the Cotswolds Way it is straight up which is probably what you remember. I can advise you on some easier walks.

We have not been to Warwick Castle either!

 

[JeriF.]

Have you thought about the Lake District? We stopped there for five days on our way from Scotland to England a few years ago and loved it. We stayed in a gorgeous old mansion on Lake Windemere called Langdale Chase, http://www.langdalechase.co.uk/index.html, and visited nearby towns and hills. We're not hikers, but obviously the area is a mecca for walkers. The scenery is--well, you know its reputation, so no need for me to prattle on. Anyway, you can do a day trip to Hadrian's Wall if you wish, and if you want to break up the time you can head for southern Wales (since you've been to the north--Caernarvon?), which is totally different from the north, very rural and quite lovely, with gentle hills and pretty towns. But if it were me, I'd give the week to the Lake District, which is well worth it.

 

[artnbarb]

No, we absolutely want a car for our week in the Cotswolds, but beyond that I'm not sure. When we visited Scotland we arrived in Edinburgh, stayed for a few days (taking in the Tattoo!), then we rented a car and drove north, and eventually ended up in Glasgow, where we returned the car. Getting in and out of the 2 big cities wasn't fun. We also had a few complaints about the roadways - no directional signs, like 'north' or 'south', or even city names, so we ended up spending time riding down the motorway, tracking the city exits on the map to figure out if we were going in the right direction! I'm hoping GPS will make travel easier, altho I still expect driving to be a challenge for both driver AND passenger.

I've been to Bath but Art hasn't. Do you think we should do this as a daytrip from London, or from our base in the Cotswolds? I'd like to get the most bang for our buck with the car rental. so it may (or may not) make sense to take the train from London, rather than 'wasting' a day while we're in the Cotswolds.

Yes, gentle walks please, especially when the weather could be hot - or at least warm! Obviously we took the straight up walk to Broadway tower.....

As for what we like - medieval is at the top of my list. Gardens, historical houses, yes, cute villages, beautiful scenery. Not too interested in the seaside. Altho I subscribe to the slow travel theory, and always want to 'play house', the reality is that we'll be in each place for limited amount of time and will want to see and do as much possible.....sitting in the garden, lounging around the pool - those are NOT my idea of a vacation! I don't think I'm as crazy as some, like guests (American of course) who drove from Assisi to Venice for a DAYTRIP!, but I do want to see as much as I can within Pauline's concentric circle.

The Lake District has always held great appeal, but I hesitated to head so far north if we limit ourselves to 3 weeks. Perhaps I should check driving times and see just how far it is. If we decide we can stay longer than 3 weeks then the Lake district becomes more appealing. I think we'd keep the car and drive from the Cotswolds to the Lake District, since I'm guessing that's the best way to see the Lake District as well.

 

[Pauline]

I have been thinking about this a lot Barb. It is always hard to decide where to go. I have this problem with France and have ended up doing several trips, each to different areas.

I think you will find affordable vacation rentals (holiday cottages). This is a popular type of accommodation here, so there are many of them. I think car rentals are well priced too. So the vacation may not be that expensive. Petrol (gas) for the car is expensive - I think about $8/gallon, but distances are short here. Food in restaurants is expensive, but with a vacation rental you can do some of your own cooking. Beer is well priced.

If you want to see medieval things and gardens, consider the south-east - Sussex and Kent. There are many medieval sites here. We have only done a few short visits to that area. I have would like to see the Sissinghurst Gardens and Hever Castle (home of Anne Bolyn) in Kent. Brighton is supposed to be a very interesting city.

That said, the south-west is also wonderful and is probably cheaper to visit and a bit less crowded.

I would go on the National Trust and English Heritage websites and browse around figuring out what sites you want to visit, and plan your trip based on that.

Don't rule out Scotland if you really want to go there. Use Google Maps to calculate driving times - you may be surprised. It is under 6 hours on the motorway from the Cotswolds to Edinburgh in Scotland, under 4 hours from the Cotswolds to the Lake District.

By the time of your vacation, Scotland may be a separate country! They vote later this year on whether or not to separate from the United Kingdom. The chatter now is all about what currency they would use.

In 2005 we did a 4 week trip, spending a week in 4 places in the southwest - Salisbury, Somerset, Cotswolds, Devon. Each place had a lot to see. If I were to redo that trip I would do:
- 1 week on the Dorset coast (I like Bridport and Lyme Regis)
- 1 week in Devon (near Dartmoor or in south Devon)
- 1 week in Cornwall
- 1 week in the Cotswolds
But that may focus too much on seaside places.

Have fun planning and please run any ideas by us. You know how much I like talking about this type of trip!

 

[Pauline]

I've been to Bath but Art hasn't. Do you think we should do this as a daytrip from London, or from our base in the Cotswolds? I'd like to get the most bang for our buck with the car rental. so it may (or may not) make sense to take the train from London, rather than 'wasting' a day while we're in the Cotswolds.

I do love Bath. You could take the train from London to Bath, spend a couple of nights in a hotel, then pickup you rental car and drive up to the Cotswolds.

I think it is too far for a day trip from London, and there is so much to see in London. You could do it from the Cotswolds as a day trip. If you decide to do that, I can give you directions for the best place to park where you don't have to get caught up in the sometimes thick Bath traffic.

 

[artnbarb]

I do love Bath. You could take the train from London to Bath, spend a couple of nights in a hotel, then pickup you rental car and drive up to the Cotswolds.

I think it is too far for a day trip from London, and there is so much to see in London. You could do it from the Cotswolds as a day trip. If you decide to do that, I can give you directions for the best place to park where you don't have to get caught up in the sometimes thick Bath traffic.

That's probably why I've seen so little of Bath - it's always been a day trip from London. Your idea of renting the car in Bath is just the sort of logical idea that often eludes me!

 

[artnbarb]

I need to check out some rentals to see what the prices are, but before I can do that I need to decide when we want to visit. I think July and August would be our first two choices, just to take advantage of venues having longer hours, more festivals, and longer daylight in general.

Thinking of gardens, would July be better than August, when things might be starting to brown out?

 

[Pauline]

Things don't really brown out here, but you have a good point. Gardens are best in June or July. Also, school holidays start here towards the end of July and go through August, so prices are higher (on vacation rentals) and places more crowded, because a lot of Brits travel in England.

School holidays are different by county and by type of school (private schools - called public schools - may take a different week than state schools), but most are the same for the summer. The Gloucestershire County website shows school holidays for 2015 to run from July 21 - August 31. Vacation rentals raise their prices for the summer school holidays.

From our experience here, you can hope for nice weather from May to September. May can be colder than you would think, but things are usually nicely warmed up by June and can even get a bit too hot in July. By September it is cooling down, but usually nice (I say this remembering Terry's trip a couple of years ago when it rained every day she was here in September - but that was a bad patch).

One garden you can tour in the Cotswolds, is Highgrove near Tetbury. This is Prince Charles' private home but it is open to tours when he is not in residence. You have to book in March, I think, for tours that summer. I have done this tour twice and it is really interesting. I have a page with links on Cotswolder - Highgrove House.

 

[Shannon]

When you go to the Cotswolds make sure you go to Gifford's Circus!

Pauline and Steve took me there and I loved, loved, LOVED it.

 

[Kathy]

Here's another vote for Giffords Circus!

We were in the Cotswolds last year for the entire month of July (and a little bit of August). I thought the flowers were spectacular. Early in the month, there were fields of flowering plants that were just incredible: poppies, rapeseed, linseed. The lavender at Snowshill was peaking in mid/late July I think (in the photo)... maybe late this past year. The gardens and flowers are a big highlight for me, but I also like to see what people do in their front gardens, even simple hollyhocks and hanging baskets are wonderful.

There is an "open gardens" weekend in Chipping Campden that we went to one year in June. If you enjoy gardens, this would be well worth planning for. About 30 local people open their gardens as part of this charity event... a great opportunity to see the private side of the village and meet local people.

Kathy

 

[artnbarb]

Thanks Shannon and Kathy for the suggestions, esp about the gardens in Chipping Camden and for Gifford's Circus - I can't wait to Goggle that one!

Our thinking (for now) is that we'd be able to leave no earlier than the last week in June, assuming Art will be working at Churchill Downs for the spring meet. Without knowing the racing schedule and seeing how the dates fall, I can't be more specific just yet. I'd love to arrive mid-June, which would allow us to stay the 3 weeks we're hoping for, with the possibility of a 4th week, without having to pay high season prices - or complete with more people on vacation. Thanks for the details Pauline - I had no idea school lasted so far into the summer, or that the prices would increase from June to July!

Gardens, garden tours, and open houses are of great interest, and altho I know I can't avoid him entirely, the less I have to see or hear about Prince Charles the better. Some of you may remember I had some very harsh words for him, and my feelings haven't changed. Lucky for me there are no shortage of grand, historic and beautiful manor houses all over England!

 

[Pauline]

Open Gardens are held throughout the country, all year long. Some events are at specific gardens, others are several gardens in one town/village as Kathy described for Chipping Campden. You will find that many Cotswold villages have Open Gardens weekends in the summer. They put up signs a few weeks ahead to let you know. Most offer tea and cakes and the money raised goes to charity. These are very popular events.

You can see the schedule on the National Gardens Scheme website. They also publish booklets showing the open gardens in an area. This website has the booklet for Gloucestershire as a PDF (note that the 2014 booklet is not available yet).

When a town/village has an open garden weekend, it is in the NGS list, but will say "Oakridge Lynch Open Gardens" (for example) to indicate that several gardens in one village will open.

Remember when searching for Open Gardens that the Cotswolds is mostly in Gloucestershire and Oxfordshire, but parts are also in Wiltshire, Somerset, Worcestershire, and Warwickshire.

Last summer in Stroud I worked with a group doing an Edible Open Gardens weekend. We had 20+ gardens open in the Stroud area over a weekend. (I helped with their website.) This summer on the first weekend of May they are doing a Stroud Eco Open Homes tour. 27 homes in the Stroud area that all have Eco features, open to the public to tour.

 

[Flo]

I do love Bath. You could take the train from London to Bath, spend a couple of nights in a hotel, then pickup you rental car and drive up to the Cotswolds.

I think it is too far for a day trip from London, and there is so much to see in London. You could do it from the Cotswolds as a day trip. If you decide to do that, I can give you directions for the best place to park where you don't have to get caught up in the sometimes thick Bath traffic.

 

[Flo]

Since we will be going to Bath with a car, I would love to hear about the "best place to park" when you have a moment. Thank you.

 

[artnbarb]

Now I've decided that I need to start thinking about this sooner rather than later. My rule has always been that we don't start planning/talking about NEXT year's vacation until THIS YEARS vacation is over....but......If we're going to come in the summer, and want to upgrade with miles we'll need to book sooner rather than later. How far out do the airline's release flights - 330 days? If so, I'll need to look at a calendar, then figure when we want to depart and how long we're going to stay. This is why I've had this summer's vacation 99% planned since last September!

 

[Pauline]

Since we will be going to Bath with a car, I would love to hear about the "best place to park" when you have a moment. Thank you.

I will write up my driving instructions for the easy Bath parking and put them in a new thread.

Now I've decided that I need to start thinking about this sooner rather than later.

I am not sure how far ahead you can book flights, but unless you are using miles for the flights or to upgrade, it might be worth waiting for a sale to be announced. Sign up to the different airline websites. British Airways frequently has sales, as do all the other airlines (but you know this, I am just stating the obvious).

For vacation rentals (remember they are "holiday cottages" in England), try to get them booked before the new year so that you have the best selection. You are going to have good flexibility since you are doing one week in each place and staying in a few places.

I don't like having to book so far ahead, but neither do I like looking a month or two before a trip and finding nothing that looks good is available.

 

[artnbarb]

IF we get bumped this year, we'll be more likely to use miles to upgrade, and that's when we'd want to book earlier rather than later. If we don't get bumped, I doubt we'll upgrade ($300 + 30K miles). I just want to be ready, and while I'm trying not to count my chickens before they hatch, I also know that we're flying during high season and are willing to take a bump at both ends.

Because my son is moving back to the states this summer, we'll be visiting them in D.C. at some point, and I'm hoping to piggyback a trip to NYC onto that visit. I'm guessing we'll go in the fall (2104) or spring of next year, so for budgetary reasons I think I'm going to have to limit my visit to England somewhat. I need to figure out:

• Where we want to visit. So far, London for several days, maybe a few at the beginning and a few more at the end, Bath for a few days (3?), the Cotswolds for a full week and then.......one more week-long stay I think. Pauline, do holiday cottages normally rent for a full week? And does that week usually begin on Saturday? Now to decide where? That's about 23 days, and I could easily be persuaded to tack on an extra day or two for the right location, but I think I need to stay under 4 weeks..
• When we want to arrive. Right now I'm thinking it will be the last of June, hopefully the 22nd. With the number of days I'm considering that would take us until the middle of July.

OK, just by typing this out I think I've made some progress!

 

[artnbarb]

and now dear friends who live in Braintree have invited us to stay with them for a few days. I don't think it's really practical to daytrip into London from there, and we'd only stay there 2, 3 days at most. Now the challenge - how to work this into our itinerary?

 

[Pauline]

That is a good problem to have. I had to look up Braintree on the map and it looks like it is in north Essex, near the border with Suffolk? You can explore Cambridge, Norfolk and Suffolk from there. You could even coordinate this visit with picking up your rental car in their area.