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Sojourner

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I have been posting on travel forums for some years. I have been travelling in varying degrees for decades. I"ve seen a lot of changes in the world of travel during my lifetime, some for the better others for the worse in my opinion. I suppose I have been a 'slow traveller' in general, long before the term existed. I've always believed in going to a place and then staying until I was ready to move on. Itineraries have never been part of my travel plans in general.

Rather than perhaps trying to determine when are you a 'slow traveller' vs. a 'fast traveller', my question would be when are you a resident vs. a traveller? In other words, a 'sojourner' is defined as a person who resides temporarily in a place, but what does the word 'temporarily' actually mean in terms of time?
 
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Welcome!
Interesting angle - we're always very keen to explore the places where we base, which generally means less day trips than others do (we'll take a day trip ~ every 5 days, though I'll have ~ up to 3 available just in case the mood takes us). Invariably there is plenty of interest beyond the obvious.

regards
Ian
 
Rather than perhaps trying to determine when are you a 'slow traveller' vs. a 'fast traveller', my question would be when are you a resident vs. a traveller?

Hello Sojourner and welcome here.

Nice question, here's my view :
I think "residing" for me means doing what you would do back home, but in a new place. Even for a short while."Travel" becomes attached to "visiting" and moving on, and doing things that are usually non-routine. Also, not connected to time.

So - if I go "traveling" for a month, but I decide to reside in one place for a week out of that, while doing something similar to my routine back home....then I have become a resident while traveling, even for a short time. "Residing" and "traveling" are two different mindsets.

"Temporary" is subjective, and depends on what you feel about "home" - if you know for sure you will go back, then you are in a temporary state. It could be any length of time.
 
You have introduced the word 'home' into the equation joe. That is another interesting word. Where is 'home'?

Is it where you were born, where you grew up, where you have a legal residence, or simply where you are now? You comment on 'temporary' as relating to whether you will 'go back' (home). Some expats when talking about where they are living vs. where they were born, will talk about going 'home' for a visit even when they have not lived there in 30 years. I know some of those people. I think 'home' is a whole different subject from 'resident vs. traveller'.

For me, home is where I am now. It has not always been this place, it has varied as I have moved from place to place. I think for the majority of people who have only ever lived in one country and perhaps even one town, 'home' is a very simple term. For those who have lived in several countries during their life, it becomes a more complicated word unless they are a person who clings to 'home' as being where they were born/grew up.

A related word is 'homesick'. As a concept I understand it but I cannot recall ever having felt it. I've met people who after as little as 3-4 days away from home have said they felt homesick. Personally, the saying, 'home is where you hang your hat' is more of how I feel about it. Home is where I live now, not where I was born or grew up (they differ in my case). So home is a moving target in a way.

In regards to home, resident, traveller and temporary, I would have to say that if I perceive where I am as temporary, then it is not home and I am not a resident. It is as you indicate, a mindset about how you think of where you are now. For me being resident must also mean it is my home at present.
 
When working away from home and staying in hotels, we used to berate anyone who said they were 'off home' when heading back to the hotel. Never a disagreement, just an embarrassed nod of agreement.

For me home is a feeling and a place where roots are put down.

I'll accept that an apartment on holiday is not home, even if it is homely, but I do like to indulge thoughts of being a resident there.
 
I understand you completely Sojourner. Everyone has different experiences with regard to terms that have no clear-cut definition - that's what makes comparing these experiences interesting. Certainly "home" is another term that falls into that category, and might be dependent on what you bond with more : geography, family, childhood, culture, whatever.
I have not traveled long enough in my life to experience anything other than a rather "regular" mindset : home is where I live with my wife, in the country I reside and live in, and to which I return after traveling.
It might have turned out differently...but it didn't...;)
 
How about being 'homeless'. Not in the sense of being broke and living under a bridge, but in the sense of having packed up and left where you were living, without having a 'new home' you were going to. I have experienced that several times.

For example, I once packed, left Canada and flew to Europe. In Europe I travelled around for a year stopping in various places for varying periods of time. After about a year, I stopped in a place with no expectation of staying for any particular period of time but ended up staying for years. I think many people would say I was 'homeless' for quite a while in between.

After I had stayed put for quite a while (several years), I would often meet tourists (it was a high tourist destination) who when they found out I had been there for years, would ask in some form, 'what made you decide to stay?' I would honestly answer that I had never actually decided to stay, I just hadn't decided to leave yet. Most found that a difficult concept to understand.

I've never considered myself to be homeless although I'm sure some people would see examples like the above that way. It's just not something I think about, home is as I said, where I am now. 'Home' isn't a permanent term although I'm sure most people think of it that way. I have no idea if I will leave where I am living now, in the future. I may, I may not, I have no way to know the answer to that. As the saying goes, 'man plans, God laughs.'
 
I have been travelling in varying degrees for decades. I"ve seen a lot of changes in the world of travel during my lifetime, some for the better others for the worse in my opinion.

As a more experienced traveler than me, what changes have you seen for the worse in the world of travel? Offhand, two come to mind : more places become crowded, and more consumerism connected with travel-related activities. Another one depends on your personal take on travel : there are less surprises and planning is much easier.....
 
I love this discussion! Thanks for starting it, Sojourner. I agree with Joe. My husband and I have had several longer stays in cities--a month or more--and we settle in. It does feel like we are living (or residing, to use Joe's term) in that city, in that neighborhood, in that apartment--if only for that month or six week period. Yes, we explore the city. We go to museums, check out local exhibitions in galleries, go to festivals, but we live our lives like we do at home, also. The stimulation of a new environment, with many new things to explore, is exhilarating, but we do it at a slow pace, working our exploration into the normal rhythm our days.
During our time in Barcelona this winter we were fortunate to become friends with an expat couple who have lived in the city for many years. It was fun to make new friends, but also very helpful in gaining a deeper understanding of the political and cultural context in which we were living.
I never felt "homesick" in any sense of the word during our periods of longer stays. I was sometimes a bit frustrated when I tried to solve a problem and lacked the language or cultural understanding to figure it out quickly. Examples that come to mind are trying to find a medication and learning that it has no direct equivalent, so you have to find a similar product or trying to find a personal care or laundry product that isn't highly scented. Minor details in the whole scheme of things.
 
Well Joe, that is a good question. You could spend a lot of time and or writing in discussing it. Some changes are good or bad depending on your view as you say. For example, smartphones are both. While they give you access when needed, they also give others access to you when you may not want to be accessed. There was also a study done with students visiting a museum and then being asked some questions about what they saw afterwards. Those without a camera (or smartphone snapping selfies) remembered more than those with one. If your nose is in your smartphone, you are not looking at what is in front of you.

The internet has made research easier and that I consider fully a good thing. However, it has also made pre-booking hotels etc. easier and that I do not consider always a good thing. I am not a fan of pre-planning travel unless it is a one destination trip. I prefer flexibility. You on the other hand note that 'planning is much easier'. You assume that is a plus. For me it removes spontaneity, flexibility and much of the 'adventure' of travel. An adventure by definition requires two things. Risk and the unknown. Planning is an attempt to remove both of those in most ways.

In the same sentence you mention there are 'less surprises'. You obviously are seeing that as a 'good change'. Again, I see it as a 'bad change'. Almost all the most memorable and best things I have encountered in travel have been surprises in some way. One definition of boring would be a life without surprises.

I know there are sometimes some bad surprises that can happen. But how you react and adapt to those situations often turn out to be both self-enlightening and your best dinner party stories. "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger." F. Nietzsche
I have 'seen the elephant' three times while travelling and each time it has been a positive experience in the end. But those kind of bad surprises are far fewer and farther in between than surprises that were positive right from the start. If we try to avoid surprises because there might be the odd bad one, we also avoid all the more likely good ones.

There is also the brainwashing of people today into believing that if they don't book ahead, they will not get a room at all or it will not be at the 'best' (simply meaning lowest) price. Neither of those is true but most people believe they are. This brainwashing has also resulted in a lot of travellers who put price ahead of everything else. Many have lost the ability to distinguish between 'price' and 'value for money.'

Consider air travel. Time was when you had to have some serious money to afford to fly. Airlines originally had only one class and that was First Class. Then came along some low price airlines like Freddie Laker's who introduced prices for the masses with all seats being what we call Economy Class. I'm not quite old enough to remember that but I am old enough to remember when Business Class was first introduced. So then we had First, Business and Economy. Now some airlines have even more classes with things like 'Premium' Economy.

Airlines have to survive and to do that, they have to give the people what the people want. That's one reason why the saying, 'the people get what they deserve' is often a negative. If people are only interested in finding the lowest price, then an airline has no choice but to lower their prices. The problem is, that to do that and still make a profit, they also have to lower the service they provide. So we get narrower seats, less legroom, no free food, drinks, blankets, pillows, earphones, etc. etc. Less comfort and less included. That may get you a lower price but it doesn't get you better 'value for money.' Today in real terms, flying is cheaper than it has ever been in history. But flying has also become less and less enjoyable at the same time. That is a change for the worse.

As I said, you could spend a lot of time discussing what has got worse or better about travel joe.

Jan55612, I agree that when you stay in a place more than a couple of days, you do start to 'settle in'. Living, residing, at home, etc. are just words in the end but it is the individual's belief of where they are in relation to those words that matters. Hard to describe. Let me give you an example.

I went to a place and after 3 days, thought as a visitor I had worked out how things 'worked'. At least from a visitor/tourist's viewpoint, that seems to be about how long it takes to work out some simple basics on a vacation. Then after 3 weeks, I thought I really had a handle on how things worked. Then after 3 months, I was sure I knew all I needed to know to live there. Finally, after 3 years, I realized I was only beginning to understand the place, the people and the culture. I knew I was getting there because locals were referring to me as a local vs. other 'foreigners' but I knew enough to know there was more I did not know than I did know at that point.

So the question would be, when if ever did I move from being a traveller, to a resident or to it being my home? At 3 weeks, I might have considered I knew enough and was doing the things that made me believe I was a resident. But looking back after 3 months I would have said I knew nothing after 3 weeks and was really just a visitor still. Looking back from 3 years at where I was after 3 weeks, would have probably made me laugh at how little I knew about living there.

Perhaps where I am really headed is to the understanding that we are always travellers no matter how long we stay in a place unless we are born, live and die in the one place. OR we have to believe that where we are now is home regardless of how long we are there for. It's all just a state of mind. ;)
 
Airlines have to survive and to do that, they have to give the people what the people want. That's one reason why the saying, 'the people get what they deserve' is often a negative. If people are only interested in finding the lowest price, then an airline has no choice but to lower their prices. The problem is, that to do that and still make a profit, they also have to lower the service they provide. So we get narrower seats, less legroom, no free food, drinks, blankets, pillows, earphones, etc. etc. Less comfort and less included. That may get you a lower price but it doesn't get you better 'value for money.' Today in real terms, flying is cheaper than it has ever been in history. But flying has also become less and less enjoyable at the same time. That is a change for the worse.
Agreed and it extends to pretty much everything in our lives, but Supermarkets and their tasteless fruit & veg jump out to me.

I used to be very relaxed about the booking thing, though turning up at an Australian airport at 2am with a plan to book into a backpackers place once I got into the city was braver in hindsight than I thought at the time. As it was, with 4 different people stood round the accommodation board in the airport, one bright person suggested checking into a motel that had apartments. So by 2:30am we've got one booked and got about 4-5 hours sleep before heading into the city. I would not get such a loose plan past the brains of the operation!
 
There is also the brainwashing of people today into believing that if they don't book ahead, they will not get a room at all or it will not be at the 'best' (simply meaning lowest) price. Neither of those is true but most people believe they are.

Many of us on this forum stay in vacation/holiday rentals and I think it works best to book these ahead. Recently on a trip we wanted to extend our trip and it was difficult to find a place that was available or would take our booking at short notice. I gave up. Also I like to do the research at home, at my computer, and not use travel time to be planning the next step. Occasionally I have left weeks open, but I found I just do the same thing on the trip as I would have done at home - pick a place, do some research, look at vacation rental listings, book.

For hotels, I somewhat agree with you. In 1988 Steve and I spent a year traveling around Europe. We booked our hotels at the train station of the place we arrived - from the tourist office, or those accommodation boards. But, even then, I think we made some bad decisions. For me it takes 24 hours to get used to a place. We got off the train in San Remo (Italy, Liguria), thought "eh?" and got the next train out. I am sure we were wrong! One day I will book a trip for San Remo.

We used to do long driving trips in the US and look for Vacancy signs at the end of the day, choosing a motel that way. I read recently that Vacancy signs are disappearing - can this be true? That everyone is booking online?

As we both get older, I like having the trip planned ahead. I can take time to research and choose, then once we start we follow the plan and don't have to think about where we are going or will stay.
 
I always book ahead these days. However, on my first trip to Europe, which was in May 1987, we flew into Frankfurt and had a reservation for only the first night. Finding hotels rooms in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria without advance reservations worked just fine---until we decided to go to Munich. We spent way too much time finding a hotel that worked for us (price, location, parking, etc.). After that, I vowed never to go into another major city without a reservation. In the U.S., we sometimes roll the dice on hotels when driving, depending on the time of year and route. I have had some luck with approaching the desk and asking "what is your best price tonight?" If it isn't busy and not early in the day, I have gotten some good deals.
 
The internet has made research easier and that I consider fully a good thing... I am not a fan of pre-planning travel unless it is a one destination trip. I prefer flexibility. You on the other hand note that 'planning is much easier'. You assume that is a plus.

In the same sentence you mention there are 'less surprises'. You obviously are seeing that as a 'good change'. Again, I see it as a 'bad change'. Almost all the most memorable and best things I have encountered in travel have been surprises in some way. One definition of boring would be a life without surprises.

I believe that I was not clear enough, or that you misunderstood me.
I listed "easier planning" and "less surprises" as being among the changes for the worse "depending on your personal take on travel" - which is exactly what you have stated above : for some, pre-planning takes away important aspects of travel, such as dealing with the unknown, spontaneity, etc.

In my personal case, I would list these as changes that have helped me. As I don't travel very much or for lengthy periods of time, the ease in accessing information helps me use my time to achieve what I believe to be the main things I want in a trip. But I am quite aware of the "flip side of the coin" and fully appreciate it. Again - it's all in the mind...

We've had nice threads, actually, on the old Slow Travel forum about planning and surprises, and I personally certainly do leave enough of each day relatively "un-planned" while travelling. There's always something that grabs my eye without it having come up previously on my planning radar. Accommodations, OTOH, are always booked months in advance.

But there are some obsessive planners here, so your presence might balance things a bit!

I hike quite a bit out here in the desert - I'm fortunate to have quite a big swathe of it literally on my doorstep. In the past I thought of marking out some walking routes here that are unmarked, for the benefit of people who ask me exactly how to hike the routes. But I decided against it - having no marked signs leaves something of the mystery of the desert very palpable.

As I said, you could spend a lot of time discussing what has got worse or better about travel joe.

Well, as long as we have a bit of time, why not discuss it? ;)

Another change for the "better" : a wide range of types of accommodations that are not hotel-based.
Another change for the "worse" : wine has become even more pretentious. ;)
 
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I always book ahead these days. However, on my first trip to Europe, which was in May 1987, we flew into Frankfurt and had a reservation for only the first night. Finding hotels rooms in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria without advance reservations worked just fine---until we decided to go to Munich. We spent way too much time finding a hotel that worked for us (price, location, parking, etc.). After that, I vowed never to go into another major city without a reservation. In the U.S., we sometimes roll the dice on hotels when driving, depending on the time of year and route. I have had some luck with approaching the desk and asking "what is your best price tonight?" If it isn't busy and not early in the day, I have gotten some good deals.

We were one year after you. We had 5 nights booked in Paris and plans to travel for a year (by train). We ended up traveling around Europe for 6 months then staying in a cottage in England for the last 3 months. Our experience of no hotel was Stockholm. We had to stay way out in the suburbs and could only stay for 2 nights. Other than that we always found hotels or vacation rentals.

Although, come to think of it, the cottage we found in England was a disaster. I knew nothing about where to stay in the countryside near London and we ended up in a boring village in Essex! We could have been in Sussex!! I kick myself now. We took the first thing we could find.
 
I hike quite a bit out here in the desert - I'm fortunate to have quite a big swath of it literally on my doorstep. In the past I thought of marking out some walking routes here that are unmarked, for the benefit of people who ask me exactly how to hike the routes. But I decided against it - having no marked signs leaves something of the mystery of the desert very palpable.

You could make an invisible map, just noting GPS coordinates of the route.
 
I think of travel as having two types. One stop and multi-stop. If we go on a one stop trip, I have no problem with booking ahead. But on a multi-stop, we do not book anything other than the first stop ahead of time.

I also differentiate between known and unknown destinations. If I know a place from previous visits, it isn't difficult to determine how long we will probably want to stay for. So pre-booking is not a problem. But if a place is unkown to us, I don't see how anyone can know how long it will hold their interest for. So obviously to pre-book, you just have to guess. We prefer to leave it open. We stay until we are ready to leave or until our total time available runs out if it is limited.

How many times have you heard people say, 'I wish we had had longer in X' or 'I wish we had spent less time in Y.' We never want to find ourselves saying either of those. Pre-booking pretty much makes finding yourself saying either of those inevitable.

My wife had always had pre-booked reservations like most people when she travelled before we married. On our first trip together after (not counting honeymoon) we were married, we went by car from the UK to mainland Europe with no reservations. My wife was a bit nervous about that. After spending some time in a couple of places in France, we went into Switzerland and arrived in the town of Meiringen. I intended to show her the Bernese Oberland area. We found a hotel and checked in asking for 5 nights. At the end of the fifth day, we were having dinner and my wife said, 'I love it here, I don't want to leave.' I went to the hotel reception and asked for another 3 nights. No problem.

It was then that the 'light bulb went on' for my wife. If you have nowhere you are supposed to be tomorrow, you are free to stay or go as you please. Staying longer than anticipated or the opposite, has happened many times to us since then and you would now have a very hard time convincing my wife to plan a 'tour' and pre-book places. In fact, I would say she would outright refuse to do so.

An interesting point is that some hotels find it a bit difficult to cope with an unknown length of stay. On a visit to the Santa Fe area of New Mexico we checked in to a hotel and when asked 'how long will you stay', I gave one of my standard answers which is, 'why don't you book us in for a week and if we decide to leave before then, I will give you 24 hours notice.' The receptionist had to go and ask the manager how to deal with that. The answer of course was that there was no problem. A room was available for a week and their cancellation policy was 24 hours.

If you think about it, in the days when people went on the 'Grand Tour' of Europe, that was the norm. It's still our norm.

I agree it is different when you are renting a vacation apartment or house by the week. That industry has set itself up on the basis of weekly minimum rentals. They also can't cope well with say a 10 day rental. It's by the week or nothing. But who is that designed to serve best, you or the apartment owner?

On a side note regarding apartment rentals, my wife has only one comment to make. She does not cook on vacation (and I don't know how to). She's fine with renting an apartment for the extra space but a kitchen is not desireable at all. I might get ideas. :D Her ideal is a hotel suite.
 
You could make an invisible map, just noting GPS coordinates of the route.

Well, that's a complete "no-no" for me while hiking : no smartphones or GPS. I'm with Sojourner on this one - if needs be, I prefer my nose to be in a map, not on a line in the screen of a smartphone or navigation device.:D
 
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I agree it is different when you are renting a vacation apartment or house by the week. That industry has set itself up on the basis of weekly minimum rentals. They also can't cope well with say a 10 day rental. It's by the week or nothing. But who is that designed to serve best, you or the apartment owner?

I have a lot of respect for people who are personally involved in hospitality-related ventures, especially those who open their homes to tourists. They have to deal with quite a range of types of people, and the work can be on the border of slavery. Well, I might be exaggerating a bit...
IAC, if they are a bit finicky in their demands sometimes, they sometimes have earned the right to be that way.
Booking off-season can usually generate greater flexibility on their part.
 
I agree it is different when you are renting a vacation apartment or house by the week. That industry has set itself up on the basis of weekly minimum rentals. They also can't cope well with say a 10 day rental. It's by the week or nothing. But who is that designed to serve best, you or the apartment owner?

On a side note regarding apartment rentals, my wife has only one comment to make. She does not cook on vacation (and I don't know how to). She's fine with renting an apartment for the extra space but a kitchen is not desireable at all. I might get ideas. :D Her ideal is a hotel suite.

Not all vacation rentals are locked into the week-or-nothing plan. We have stayed in quite a few that were much more flexible. In fact, most of our rentals have been that way, maybe at least in part because we generally travel off-season and book well ahead.

I also do not like the bother of cooking when we travel, but I do like the flexibility of having a kitchen for quick light meals, as well as the increased space in an apartment or house rental. We usually go out for a nice lunch, often as part of a day trip, then have a very light dinner at home -- maybe just bread, cheese, and wine.
 

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