Listing sites and their hidden charges for travellers

[Felicity]

With VRBO (aka Expedia now) jumping on the bandwagon in February and introducing a booking fee for all bookings taken through their site, this is an opportune moment to share this excellent blog summarising what you are actually giving away to the 'giants' when you make a booking through them as it is not always made clear when you book, who is getting what. Note that Holiday Lettings and FlipKey have the same 'rules' as they are both Trip Advisor companies. It is best to search for properties on these sites which have an 'Inquire' (or 'Enquire' ) button, rather than a 'Book' button as those are subscription listers who are allowed to sell outside the system. Better still, google the property of your choice, find their own website if they have one, and book direct with the owner or manager.

 

[Pauline]

Great article - thanks for posting it. I am going to link to it again so no one will miss it.

Eco-Gites of Lenault - Instant Booking Holidays - How much more are you paying?, January 28, 2016

I book hotels through Booking.com but I would never use it for a vacation rental. Nor would I do an instant booking for a vacation rental on HomeAway. I always look to see if they have their own website (where there is usually more information) and contact them directly. I do use agencies and I know I pay more, but some places are only represented by agencies and I try to find local agencies based in the area.

 

[Roz]

I think it would be great if, when people post reviews of vacation rentals, they try to include direct contact info for the owner if they have it. For example, I posted a review a while back of a wonderful place where we stayed in Vaison-la-Romaine. I rented it through VRBO, but now that they are about to add booking fees, I could add the email address of the owner, so anyone interested could contact him directly and perhaps save a little money. (I don't think he has his own website.)

Pauline, if you would like to add that to my review, let me know, and I'll send you the info.

 

[Felicity]

Nice idea, Roz but unfortunately VRBO/Homeaway's system automatically wipes any url or any email address from all reviews. It also wipes these from correspondence through their system so you can't even give somebody, say a pointer to an attraction in the area even after they have booked and paid! I have a subscription listing so thankfully at the moment I have access to an enquirer's email address. Otherwise, our correspondence would be kept severely in check.

The best you can do is mention the house name (lots!) so they can possibly be found on another less-expensive-to-book website. Quite a lot of people advertise on tiny niche local sites which are merely contact portals and not ones who handle payments so they may come up there, in a Google, even if they don't have their own website.

 

[Pauline]

Pauline, if you would like to add that to my review, let me know, and I'll send you the info.

Send it to me Roz and I will add it to your review. I will make it not clickable - to prevent them getting spam.

 

[Roz]

Sorry I wasn't clear, Felicity. I didn't mean a review on VRBO, etc., itself, which I'm sure would do everything it could to keep a renter from directly contacting the owner. I have noticed that when I write to the owner through one of those sites, it even masks any emails that are included in the message. I meant when posting reviews here on Slow Europe, or similar non-commercial sites.

Felicity, suppose someone would contact you via VRBO or whatever before actually booking, and was then able to find your email address elsewhere. Are you contractually obliged not to accept a direct booking if the person then books outside VRBO? I don't suppose they'd really have the resources to follow up on that, but I wonder what the terms of the contract are?

 

[Pauline]

Previously owners paid to list on HomeAway and their sites, so it didn't matter if they took the booking through the HomeAway system or directly by email. With this new system it must all be changing.

 

[Kathy]

I list our Bonnieux apartment on VRBO/Homeaway too and decided to continue my listing. I pay a meaningful annual fee for this. However, I've decided not to take automatic bookings (even though this would move my listings up on the "VRBO sort") because I want to have a discussion with the person to be sure it's right on both sides. I start a discussion on the VRBO message system, but once the person has booked, I move the discussion to personal email.

I need to do some work on the page on my website about our apartment... it's pretty easy to change things on the VRBO listing, keep up a calendar there, and include reviews. I will continue to use VRBO to look for rentals myself, and I hope people will continue to find our apartment through VRBO. We're now starting our fourth year of rentals, getting some repeat visitors, and word-of-mouth referrals.

After years of being a "renter" in Europe, it's definitely been interesting from the other side!

Kathy

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

I never book instantly. I always use the email add provided on the site and start a conversation just as Kathy described above. I don't trust this instant book option. I also usually try and check if the listing has their own website. Many do not. I have also used agencies. Am doing that for our Madrid and Lisbon trips. Sometimes it's better to pay extra to get what you want. I find in larger cities it's sometimes better to go through an agency. However, many of these agencies also list on VRBO and Airbnb. To cover all their bases I guess.

I've never booked a hotel through Expedia or Booking.com. It seems to me that whenever I've compared these sites to the hotel' own site, I get a better deal through the hotel. I think hotels are getting wise to the advantage of folks booking through their sites.

 

[Roz]

Two years ago when I rented from VRBO, the owner included his own email address in the VRBO response. From what you say, Felicity, it seems that email option has been removed. I know when I rented last year via Homeaway, they removed my personal email from my response. Is it still possible for owners to see the renters' emails in their response?

I wonder if those sites still allow owners to list their own websites on the VRBO listing. I know that was possible in the past. Maybe it will be changed, if it hasn't already.

 

[Kathy]

Within the VRBO/Homeaway message center, I do see the potential renter's name, telephone number, and email address at the top. I can choose to email them back to that address or continue the discussion within the message center. I don't think they see my email, and I know that one time recently when I included it within the message center, it wasn't displayed.

I do like to keep the initial discussion within the message center, because it's a really good record of our discussion. But as I said before, once the person decides to proceed with a rental, I then send a proper email with a confirmation of the rental.

We do have a link to our Luberon Experience website near the end of our VRBO listing. It's still there...

 

[Felicity]

Sorry I wasn't clear, Felicity. I didn't mean a review on VRBO, etc., itself, which I'm sure would do everything it could to keep a renter from directly contacting the owner. I have noticed that when I write to the owner through one of those sites, it even masks any emails that are included in the message. I meant when posting reviews here on Slow Europe, or similar non-commercial sites.

Felicity, suppose someone would contact you via VRBO or whatever before actually booking, and was then able to find your email address elsewhere. Are you contractually obliged not to accept a direct booking if the person then books outside VRBO? I don't suppose they'd really have the resources to follow up on that, but I wonder what the terms of the contract are?

Roz. Sorry, I am not getting notifications of postings so I missed this. VRBO/Homeaway now has two kinds of listings - commission based (here the owner pays the website nothing unless they get a booking and then they pay a percentage fee to take the booking) and subscription based (quite a hefty annual charge and graded according to how high up you want to feature in the listings - it can be over $1000 if you have a platinum listing and pay for features).

I have subscription listings. My email address is displayed (if you can find the insignificant button to press) and I am free to take bookings outside the confines of the website. I have to go into the dashboard to retrieve the traveller's email address but it IS there and also their phone number. MY email address is hidden from them so it is up to me to contact them directly as they can't do so with me. This is actually quite sensible as it stops the people who just want to send spam to your real email address.

The commission listers would be *ethically* obliged not to take a booking outside the system (they do not have a link to their website) but I don't believe they are contractually obliged. I think there is a warning that if they do this, then they could be removed from the system with no redress. It would be up to the enquirer to find them another way as the owner would have no way of finding the enquirer. I am under no such obligation. However when the booking fee comes in, if someone enquires and I then steer them away so they book (quite 'legally') outside the system, I will be demoted in searches as I am not making enough money for Expedia (by 'fleecing' the guest - BTW they say the new Traveler Service Fee it is to provide 24/7 service but they have already said our subscription charges are such as they are, in order to provide 24/7 service so this is nothing new!).

On one of my two properties I have opted to take payments through the Homeaway system. There is a fee involved but this fee is going up, supposedly to cover the extra cost of Amex cards which are being included in the list of cards acceptable. However, they have put the fee up (2.9%) and not yet introduced Amex! Previously I have passed on the lower fee to my guests in their payments as I offer alternative methods of payment which would not cost them so much. Some have chosen to do this, some not but nobody hasn't booked because they have been put off by this. However, with this new charge there is no way I could ask them to pay an EXTRA 2.9% on top of the new 4-10% charge so that is a loss to me - already paying VRBO a subscription.

In general (and this IS a generalisation) it is the serious one person owners who have subscription listings and the hobby owners (who only let a few weeks a year anyway) who have the commission ones. I think the agencies also have the commission ones but I am not absolutely sure about that. There are now, it seems to me, as many 'managers' listing there as owners on a site which was set up as and is still called, quite misleadingly: Vacation Rental By OWNER!

 

[Pauline]

... There are now, it seems to me, as many 'managers' listing there as owners on a site which was set up as and is still called, quite misleadingly: Vacation Rental By OWNER!

Yes!! I was amazed to see agencies put their properties there - but they do!

The thing that makes me angry at HomeAway is that they run Google Ads and paid links (those sponsored listings at the bottom). So the people who pay to be listed on HomeAway compete with the other advertising on the site, just so HomeAway can make more money.

Thanks for all the details @Felicity - it is good for us as renters to know this information.

 

[Felicity]

And another thing to know with the sponsored ads on the actual main google page when you do a search for a rental property is that the big sites like TripAdvisor and, I am guessing, Homeaway put their OWN paid for ads at the top but if you click from there to the listings, at least on FlipKey aka TripAdvisor, (as I have this from one of their employees), you will not see the subscriber listings come up at all as they favour the commission listings who make them more money as they have more of those - quantity, quantity, quantity is the watchword with these sites.

I do sound bitter and twisted don't I!!?? My hope is that the savvy traveller will recognise the machinations of these sites and still manage to find the places which are not out of a mould but it does require an investment of time and we are all wanting to do things faster these days and get it DONE Perhaps Homeaway are right with their assertion (their 'research shows....') that the average traveller is happy to pay a 'small extra fee'. I think the people on travel sites such as yours, Pauline, are not average!

 

[Roz]

This is all fascinating, Felicity. Thank you for the insider's view. I do think most people on sites like this one are able and willing to put in a little extra search time -- not just to save a few dollars, euros, or pounds -- but because I think most of us would really like to support the small owner rather than the big conglomerates.

I know there are smaller sites that provide rental listings for specific areas. For example, I know that Kathy lists her apartment on a very nice one called theluberon.com. Kathy, if you are reading this, maybe you can chime in on how it compares with VRBO and the like on points such as what Felicity wrote about.

I'm sure all of us would also like to know of good listing sites for other areas in Europe that aren't devoted to gouging the owners and renters. What's a good way to find such sites?

 

[Kathy]

I'm not as negative as Felicity about VRBO... at least at this point. As a renter, it was always my "go to" site when looking for rentals, both in Europe and the USA. But I've only been listing our Bonnieux apartment for three years and don't have as much history from the owner's perspective. We do get bookings through VRBO, so at this point it's working for me, but I'll continue to evaluate every year.

The other site Roz mentioned is www.theluberon.com. This site has been around for 10+ years and used to be run as sort of an agency. The owner Paolo was a little bit active on slowtrav. Nowadays it's sort of a rent-by-owner site (really by owner, not agencies) with a bit of a twist. Paolo personally visits all the properties and decides if he'll list them. He takes all the photos and writes the copy. He's a great photographer (professional, I think) and a really good writer and web designer. He's got lots of area content on his website, which helps with his google ranking in searches. But inquiries come directly to the owner and all the transaction is between the owner and renter.

At the end of the year, on an honor system, I pay him 5% of bookings through his site. I seem to get quite a few bookings from Australia through this site. It's a beautifully presented site, but lacks some of the convenient features of VRBO. They don't have their own review mechanism (the owners provide reviews or he just gets mine from VRBO), and I have to email him with calendar changes. I actually keep my rental calendar on VRBO.

I know some tourism offices list rentals with a link to properties. I'm not sure if there's a listing fee involved. That would be another option, or perhaps to join up with other owners in an area to create a bit more of an internet presence. The challenge is to get high enough on a google search that someone can actually find your place!

I have used regional agencies before. I think you'll get the best prices if it's a small local agency that actually visits properties and can honestly represent them.... and doesn't have a lot of overhead.

 

[Kathy]

@Felicity I just read the blog post you linked to in your initial post. Have you joined the Facebook group mentioned in the blog? https://www.facebook.com/groups/bookholidaysdirect/ I was curious about it. I don't have a Facebook page for our Bonnieux apartment... though I do sometimes post about it on our European Experiences or personal Facebook page. Does it make sense to have a Facebook page for a vacation rental?

 

[Pauline]

When I am searching for information about businesses I see that some now don't have web sites, but have a Facebook page. I think having a Facebook page gives a business some extra exposure. You can create one, link to your website, add some photos, do a few posts - get everyone to LIKE it - then maybe just post once a month. Not too much extra work.

I used to help with the FB page for Cotswold Walks and it was a nice way to be in contact with his customers. It is another way of collecting reviews too.

 

[Felicity]

Pauline, as Kathy says, looking for tourist offices in the area is a good way usually to find places. Some make it difficult to list with them (annual inspections, star ratings, incurring quite a cost) and some are happy to list you for a small fee if they can see you have a good track record. I am with the Chipping Campden one and I think, looking at google analytics, that I might get bookings through there but I have no way of telling unless the people booking can remember how they found my website. And they usually can't! Sometimes websites masquerade as being the tourist information site when in fact they are not the official one and I think it is safer to go with the official one. I have found all the places we have rented in Austria through the local tourist offices. I haven't been so impressed with French tourist offices - they have been slow to respond. Then there are countless tiny little niche sites all over, mostly struggling to survive as they can't ask for big fees without producing evidence of results from the listings they have. In Italy, I know of a group of owners who banded together in Le Marche to make a Facebook group. I list on quite a few tiny one man band sites for the Cotswolds and the wider area but sadly, because they don't have the money to pay the mighty google they don't come up easily in searches. Perhaps we should all START our searches on page 6!

Kathy, yes. I am a member of the bookholidaysdirect group. It is a closed group so if even you want to join as a potential booker, you have to apply to join. They were afraid they would be spammed endlessly if they did not do that. I am not aware of getting any bookings because of being on there but it is another 'presence' and they are a really nice bunch of exceptionally caring owners as I 'know' quite a few of them from an owners' forum. I also have a Facebook page for Sansome Cottage (and would love some likes !) but I am not very good with Facebook and that is not a year old yet. I post sporadically on there. I think I would be nervous of the review thing on Facebook as people just don't seem to understand it and I have heard people who have had rave reviews and one star. I disabled mine after someone who has never stayed with me gave me five stars as I felt it was misleading to have that there. I really don't know if a Facebook page works unless you really work hard at it making connections and I don't want to bother people by posting on their pages and involving friends in networking so I am just paddling my own canoe there in the hopes that it helps a tiny bit. I think it is best to separate it from your personal page as you would just annoy your friends by posting stuff about your rental I think. I think the above owners' group have had some success but nothing earth shattering as yet. I don't GET twitter so that rules me out of a large part of the world population!

I love VRBO in its present form (although I do feel they are misleading with the name and I told them so!) because they have brought me lovely people but I hate what they are about to do to it!

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Such interesting posts. I have to admit I used to love VRBO but since many of the listings are by companies, it has gone down in my estimation. I usually scroll through the first couple of pages as they seem mostly adverts and top susbcribers.

For my use I have enjoyed the personal contact with Airbnb hosts. I have had some extremely good experiences. The reviews are real. They aren't edited. You can exchange private emails through the site and then share your personal email.I haven't found the prices out of whack and that is with our Canadian dollar. I was surprised when several posters mentioned that listings were more expensive on Airbnb than VRBO. I have found just the opposite and that includes the cleaning fee etc.

Anyway, I am renting an Airbnb apt in Toronto for end of Feb. I think it's probably one of those places where the tenaant vacates for the w/e. Who knows. But best location, price and space for our needs.

I'm also renting through Airbnb in Madeira. That was challenging. I seriously scoured the various sites but think I'm happy. The guy has great reviews and seems quite professional.

Airbnb seems to have cleaned up their act somewhat. I had to download a government issue id card. I don't have a problem with this. It's good to have some tracking mechanism. As I don't believe anyone's personal info is safe......doesn't really matter.
I've had my passport stolen or disappeared with no repercussions so fr. This was 5 years ago.