Should I keep listing my Bonnieux apartment in VRBO or change to another site?

[Kathy]

My husband and I have a two-bedroom village apartment in Provence that we rent when we're not there. We've been renting since March 2013. I had always used VRBO as my go-to rental website, so I listed our apartment there when we first got started. I pay extra to be listed on all the Homeaway websites, not just VRBO. We also list on a website specifically focused on the Luberon and have a page on our own website.

If anyone is interested to see our listings for "Bonheur en Bonnieux": VRBO listing, theluberon.com listing (links removed because the apartment now has its own website: https://bonnieux-apartment.com/ )

We're primarily focusing on English-speakers and we've had guests from the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK. (We have as many non-Americans as we do Americans.) Some of our renters are friends or friends-of-friends and we've had a few people return for a second stay. The apartment was occupied 56% of the year in 2013; 77% in 2014; and 57% in 2015. (This includes our own stays.) The apartment is generally not occupied in the winter months and August is also tough for us.

I have been finding VRBO more difficult to use lately, and the recent news about the Expedia purchase of Homeaway/VRBO may change things more. VRBO really wants you to have automatic bookings through their site and also to process payments through their site. I prefer to have personal contact with people renting our little home and like the email interaction. I do like some of the tools for owners on VRBO (like the calendar), and I have 21 five-star reviews now... I would hate to lose that history.

My current contract with VRBO expires in early January and I'll need to decide whether to renew for another year. I know many people now really like Airbnb and Trip Advisor also seems to be a popular site for rentals now. I prefer not to list on more than one major site because of the cost involved... I really don't want to increase our rates to cover more marketing costs.

I was curious which sites all of you prefer to use when you're looking for rentals in Europe. What do you see as pro's and con's of various rental sites? Do you have any thoughts about whether I should stay with VRBO for another year or if I should switch to Airbnb or Trip Advisor/Flip Key? It appears that sometime next year Homeaway/VRBO will add some type of traveler booking fee, though perhaps that would only apply for bookings made through their website... which I really don't want to do. Would you prefer to use a site where there was no direct cost of the booking to you?

I'm interested to hear from travelers as well as other owners. I do occasionally still look for rentals in Europe, but not as often as I have in the past.

Kathy

 

[chachalaca]

Kathy,

I do use VRBO as a resource, but we've never rented from anyone listed there. We prefer rentals and only use a hotel when we have an odd night here or there.

The best rentals we've had have been independent owner websites and gitesdefrance.fr/ or .com. I hate sifting through those huge listing sites. I like a professional and clean website that is honest and true. I don't mind a few extra steps if it means I have the owner at my fingertips/email/phone/etc.. ( this means I don't mind sending the check that will be cancelled later when we hand over cash, or a hard cancellation date, etc.). These places seem more quaint and more personal - like your rental looks!

If I do peruse a rental site, it is one that is easy to navigate, professional, has decent pictures and isn't too "commercial". I also really like it if the rental I'm interested in lists its own website within the rental site website.

What about next year putting out your own website AND listing w/a rental site and see which drives more business. You might need a web consultant to help with "good search ability" or whatever that term is. Maybe we all can contribute terms we use when searching. Many will repeat, but maybe some will be unique.

Good luck and let us all know what and where you list it. One day we'd like to stay there!

Laura

 

[SusanSeattle]

I tend to search for places first on forums like Fodors and Slowtrav. I then look at reviews of places I'm interested in at Tripadvisor. I prefer to rent through individual websites or small agencies. Last year I rented an apartment in Edinburgh through the owners website (pillowstops.co.uk). I found it by searching through the France forum on slowtrav. Next year, I have an apartment reserved in Paris that I found recommended on Fodors, and reserved through an agency (parisvacationapartments.com)
I really like renting where I can contact the owner or a manager who is nearby. This proves helpful is there's an issue & it's just nicer to have contact with an individual. In Edinburgh, our apartment needed a light bulb replaced and a new bathtub mat. The owner responded very quickly & fixed the same day. For the Paris apartment, the mgr has already sent me great lists of restaurants & offered to make reservations if I need. I don't think you get that kind of service through the big agencies.
I like Laura's idea of having a listing on one agency and also your own website.

 

[Amy]

I search through the forums first to see if there are rentals where people have posted positive, specific experiences, and then go to several listing sites--the VRBO family, AirB@B, TripAdvisor. I am less enthusiastic about Air B@B because of the costs that are passed to the renter, and while I can see that some people might be comfortable with the streamlined process there, I get annoyed by the barrage of emails. I will not be happy if VRBO throws booking fees onto the consumers. I also like to have communication directly with the owner before booking. I have had less success in Google searches for finding rentals not on listing sites, but am thrilled when a listing site rental links to a private website with deeper information.

Wherever I look, what will tip the balance for me when rentals are essentially equal is the specifics of the reviews--less of the "We loved this place, the owner left a bottle of wine!" and more of details on the place (comfortable beds, good knives and cookware, quiet bedroom, fast wifi), and how the owner/manager handled the issues that can pop up.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Hi Kathy,
I've gone to your site a few times but it always seems booked. Anyway, I think Airbnb is best. Any accommodation I've booked with them, I've had lots of personal emails with the owners. Many people who advertise there also list on other sites so you see the same places over and over.

They also give the option to instant book but you don't need to use it. I never instant book as I want that personal communication. I believe Shannon on ST site indicated that she hasn't used Airbnb b/c she doesn't want to be in someone's house they've vacated to live at a friend's to earn $$. I'm paraphrasing. Well that isn't the case. You can tell pretty quickly if this is a vacation rental or someone's home.

VRBO doesn't mean you are actually renting from the owner as many are managers. I also don't trust the reviews on VRBO. No way of verifying. I like the pictures and then I look elsewhere for more info. At least on Airbnb, once you register, you can communicate with people who have actually stayed in the accommodation.

Many flipkey, TA, advertisers are also on Airbnb. I don't trust flipkey as much as Airbnb. This is from a renter's perspective

I'm shocked how many people use Airbnb. People I would never suspect of using it. all ages. Sophisticated and new travellers. No other site exists for them. I've only had positive experiences(as a renter) but I am careful and use the filters and I really read the reviews carefully. They can be quite revealing even when trying to be positive.
They have taken more security precautions to protect renter and rentee and themselves no doubt. costs have risen. But even with the low CDN $ I haven't found it outrageous.

I also think a lot depends on your location and the competition. I don't imagine you have huge competition where your lovely apartment is located. But the seasons dictate. It's in the larger cities where one has to be more careful both as renter and owner/ manager I've actually gone back to renting from accredited rental agencies in places such as Madrid where it seems everyone's apartment is up for grabs.

I just read the posting by Amy. II don't know what she means by a"barrage of emails" by Airbnb. That's never been my experience. But let's face it all these companies are in it for themselves to make as much $$$ as they can as fast as they can and become the biggest. They've discovered a potentially huge market to tap into and that's now being reflected in their marketing and pricing.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

One more thing. I agree that keeping your website is good idea.

 

[Kathy]

Thanks to Laura, Amy, Susan and Lisa for taking time to offer thoughts. It sounds like there are different opinions about VRBO and Airbnb. I know many people are big fans of Airbnb, and it also seems to lend itself to different kinds of offerings like a room in a private home. I need to learn more about Airbnb and also see how this works from the owner's perspective.

I hadn't thought about the possibility that VRBO reviews aren't legit. (I can assure you that all of mine are, though some people who have posted reviews there didn't necessarily initially contact me through VRBO.)

Right now we have a page about our apartment on our Luberon Experience website. I need to update the information and the photos. I'll also think about the possibility of a separate, more detailed website. It's good to know that people see that as important. The connection to our Luberon Experience website (which is a link on our VRBO listing) helps validate who we are and our connection to Bonnieux. People can also google us and find all sorts of information.

I'd love to rent more to people we know, friends-of-friends, and repeat guests, and I think that will come over time.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your input. It's definitely helpful!

 

[GailS]

I've had good experiences with HomeAway so they are always a early search when looking for an apartment. I really like the search by map feature that they (and some other sites) have. I often know the area I'd prefer to stay. I tend to not trust reviews on TripAdvisor/FlipKey as much. Maybe it's just me but it seems like there are many inexperienced travelers who complain because something is not like at home. I also look at VRBO but find their site a bit more difficult/annoying to use. I definitely look at reviews and, it sounds like Amy, prefer hearing if the bed is comfortable and what the pillows, shower water pressure, etc. is like over whether the owners left a bottle of wine. I've been a bit skeptical of Airbnb, partially because of not being sure what type of rental it is after hearing some negative stories (in the US). I do look at their rentals but have yet to choose one. I've preferred finding reviews on sites like this or slowtrav where the community seems to have a similar travel philosophy.

 

[chiaro di Luna]

"Would you prefer to use a site where there was no direct cost of the booking to you?"
Yes, I prefer Booking.com, Expedia, & Trip Advisor that leads me to these sites. I do not like prepaying for hotels, but see it is reasonable to ask for a deposit for apartment bookings.
I always contact the property myself, as well, through email to confirm directly with them.
Post more on facebook and ask us to share your link.

 

[Cameron]

I've also seen the bad news about AirBnB in the US. Of course, good news doesn't make the news! Personally, I've never looked for a rental on AirBnB, so I have no experience. I still look at VRBO for new locations, but I tend to lean toward the forums such as this and ST for recommendations.

Many years ago in 2000, before I knew we were Slow travelers, we started on VRBO (or was it British HomeAway back then?). It was scary at first as the apartment was in Rome, the owner in Vienna and her bank in London! We had to wire the money and the keys were mailed to us in the USA. These days, that would be an indicator of a possible scam, but it wasn't.

(Side note: I've visited Bonnieux as a day trip out of Aix and loved the village. My late husband and I even looked at properties for sale--a dream that we never acted on before he passed.)

Okay, so I'm rambling....

Here's my attempt at profiling your prospects: travelers who aren't looking for the big museums; they've already seen Paris. They want the slow experience of beautiful, small French villages. They've likely been to France before and intend to return to France in the future. They're likely over the age of 45. They don't fear driving in France and either speak or understand French enough not to be intimidated by going out into the countryside. They've heard of the Luberon. Am I correct, based on your past renters?

I think the region "Luberon" is unfamiliar to many travelers and they'll be looking for "Provence" rentals and, in seeing the drill-down from Provence on VRBO, will be overwhelmed by the long list of 20,000+ properties and start with towns they've heard of. If someone knows to look under Luberon, there are still 2500+ properties. Exhausting to peruse!

Therein, IMHO, lies your problem. That's a lot of competition and your listing is getting lost in the crowd!

On AirBnB, there are 300+ listings for Provence and if I search "Luberon," there are 13 listings. Much less competition, but the prospect must still look through a lot of listings if they're unfamiliar with Luberon.

It seems any listing company should provide you with statistics to show you how many hits you get, how long they look at your listing, where they come from and where they go to after looking (collecting click patterns and abandonment rates) for you. I get those stats for free from Google for my blog on blogspot, so listing agencies can certainly provide that data to you.

Choose the service that gives you the most satisfaction. Continue to promote your property on your website and nudge your past renters with "we have these weeks open..." emails, but keep it to one or two unsolicited emails per year.

Best wishes!

 

[jan]

Just read through this whole thread. And I think, for me, Amy nailed it. I generally look at ST reviews first and then go to Homeaway. Since Shannon wrote that comment on ST about AirB&B I've felt less confident in it. I did look into one place on it for a coming trip and was able to communicate well with the owner.

Cameron's insight is really worthwhile to you Kathy. Great analysis!
Whatever you do, continued good luck.

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

I'm surprised that people still use ST. I find the reviews very dated. I've looked there for all my trips but there is so little and there aren't many after about 2005.

I also have used VRBO and Homeaway but their sites have changed. They seem to promote their top advertisers. And I don't find their filters all that helpful. I still check out VRBO but have found the same listings on Airbnb.

I think for those of us who travel 1x or 2x a year on a regular basis and know where to look and cross reference etc, it's different than for the majority of travelers. In addition, as a owner if you want to rent your place as much as possible I think you need to appeal to a wide audience. Unless you can rely on friends and word of mouth which is best, of course.

As I said previously, I am surprised at the number of people when I asked have told me they rented an apartment from Airbnb. Regarding safety and trashing of places. Frankly, that can happen anywhere with any rental or hotel space. That's why it's important to screen. All these sites are really just list serves. Owner and vacationer beware!

Mmm I've probably gotten offtrack from Kathy's original question.

 

[Kathy]

After renting 40+ apartments and houses in Europe over the years-- probably more like 50 now-- it's been very interesting to experience vacation rentals from the owner perspective, and I've really learned a lot. I think my experience as a renter has really helped in how we've set up our place and interact with our guests... I hope so, anyway!

As Cameron says, there's lots of competition for rentals in Provence... so many different villages, types of rentals, prices... and renters come from so many parts of the world. We've really focused on English-speakers, and we've been fortunately to be pretty solidly booked for three years now during the main season (April - October), with a few bookings before and after. August is a problem for us since it's mostly Europeans at that time of year and we don't have a pool. (Also in July and August our week is Monday-Monday because of our housekeeper's schedule.)

We paid extra for our VRBO listing to have it carried over to all the sites under the "Homeaway" group, including those in other languages. You can also pay more on VRBO to get "higher" on their "VRBO sort," which is what people see when they first come to the site. There you're competing with eight bedroom villas, which of course can justify paying more for a "gold" listing. I just hope people looking for one or two bedrooms will sort that way. Our place is really great for a couple, two or three friends, a small family, solo travelers. We do have stairs, so it's not for everyone. A nice terrace, but no pool... however, we did put in A/C this year to cool the bedrooms in the summer. We keep trying to make improvements.

We're not so focused on this as a "business." It's mainly a home for us when we're able to be there... when we're leading our groups and some other times of year. We love it there so much. And renting it out at other times of year helps us cover the costs and perhaps make it nicer than we would have if it was just a second home sitting empty a good part of the year. Plus we do think about our great housekeeper and being able to keep her busy on the days we have scheduled.

Anyway, I really appreciate the various perspectives and suggestions... always good to see how people search for rentals and what they look for on listings. It's changed a lot since our "old slowtrav" days, hasn't it?

Kathy

 

[Lisa in Ottawa]

Kathy,
Having just read your last post, I've changed my tune. I think VRBO would best suit your needs. It is a website that appeals to the more discerning traveler. While there are higher end properties on Airbnb, it's really geared to large numbers with varying needs. You would probably attract the kind of renter you would like with VRBO. Even though I've gone on and on about Airbnb, I always look at VRBO site as well. You're right, even when I check 1 bedroom villas pop up. It's irritating.

Your place looks so lovely and I know you've done a stellar job fixing it up. August would be challenging w/o a pool.
Well, that's my 2 cents on the issue.
Bon chance!

 

[Pauline]

I have booked through HomeAway many times. I always end up communicating with the owner, or the agency. But I get discouraged looking through the endless listings. So many with horrible photos, or too brief descriptions. As noted above, lots of listings for the popular areas. I like it when the listing links to their website - so I can go and read more, see more photos.

I have been on the Airbnb site but have not used them to book. I think you can specify that you want an independent place, not a room in someone's home.

I have always been a fan of small, local agencies and I try to find them when booking. On our recent trip I booked one place with someone I knew from SlowTrav and the other with a small local agency that I found on HomeAway when I was searching for places in Spoleto.

If you know where you want to stay - like Spoleto - it is easier on HomeAway. But if you are looking at all of Umbria, there are too many listings.

 

[Jan55612]

Kathy,
We almost always stay in apartments. I have rented through agencies or individual websites, but more frequently I have found our rentals through VRBO and/or HomeAway. While I have browsed Airbnb, I have never rented through that site. I find it frustrating to search and I am mistrustful of a number of the listings. Also, many Airbnb listings seem to be more basic, less comfortable than we are looking for. Part of that may be our ages and what we are looking for in a rental. We are 64 and 70 and seek a comfortable apartment. It doesn't have to be a luxury apartment, but needs to have a comfortable bed, a decent bathroom, comfortable seating in the living area, and enough room in the kitchen to prepare meals. So often Airbnb apartments don't tick those boxes. Your apartment looks lovely. I hope we'll be able to rent from you one day. Good luck!

 

[Roz]

Kathy, I think if I were you I would just keep my listing on VRBO but not pay extra for Homeaway. Of course, who knows what will happen when Expedia takes over, and whether the cost for a listing will go up for owners.

I agree that VRBO will help people find your apartment, but I doubt you need to have the extra-cost listing on Homeaway as well. I would suggest that you add a link on VRBO to theluberon.com listing, as well as the one you already have to your own Luberon Experience website. That way renters can avoid the coming VRBO booking fee if they are savvy enough to figure it out by using your contact info on the other sites. And the listing on theluberon.com is so much nicer-looking than the one on VRBO.

We never rent through airbnb, although I know some people have had perfectly fine experiences with them. But I sort of have the feeling you are more likely to get problem renters through airbnb. Maybe that's unfair, but it does seem you hear a fair number of horror stories about airbnb. Most of the rentals we have gotten through online listings came through VRBO. I always start there and only look at other sites if I can't find something on VRBO that looks good, or perhaps just to compare options.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and Charley!

 

[ellen]

Slowtrav was always my go-to for rental ideas and it's sad that it's no longer the resource it once was.

In the past couple of years I've found good places via Trip Advisor. I liked that I had e-mail contact with the owner prior to deciding about each rental and I had good experiences with rentals in Rotterdam and San Diego.

 

[Callie]

As usual, I'm a little late to the party. But, two comments about apartment rentals. One is that going thru all of those apartments advertised on VRBO or Airbnb or any of the other sites gives me a headache. Of course, for my last two trips, we were going to big cities with hundreds of listings. I really like to find recommendations on web sites like this one. Which leads to comment #2. We all need to write reviews of the apartments we've stayed in recently. We had a lovely place in Budapest last April and are returning to a wonderful apartment in London this coming April. I've reviewed neither, and I feel a little guilty that I want everyone else to do reviews when I haven't managed to do my own.

And another comment about Airbnb. I've been following the Airbnb saga in the US because it's affecting my little town in Maine in a negative way. Many people "from away"(as we say up here) are buying properties, not ever occupying them and renting them thru Airbnb. In effect they are opening mini hotels in residential neighborhoods and removing potential long term housing from the market. Many US cities are struggling with regulating these rentals as they have many unforeseen effects - one neighborhood in Austin TX has lost so much housing that two elementary schools may have to consolidate because of the loss of kids in the area. In my area, we have a robust tourist business from Memorial Day til Columbus Day. Winter is dead for the most part. The only way our little restaurants and shops can survive is with year round residents who go out to eat or shop in the middle of February.

Airbnb just came out with a new "Community Compact" discouraging non-owner occupied rentals. I doubt that they will stop listing such rentals, but I suspect the push back from US cities is driving it.

Full disclosure: I have rented and will probably rent again non-owner occupied apartments and most likely will feel a bit guilty about it now.

 

[Kathy]

We're here in our Bonnieux apartment, enjoying 2-1/2 weeks in the off-season. This has been our second home now for three years. We love the area, the village, and our little place. It's less than 1/3rd the size of our home in the USA, but we have it just the way we want it (only want to add one more bookcase) and are very happy here. We also like sharing it with other people. It was really good to read the recent comments in the guestbook when we arrived.

I really appreciate the comments from everyone. I think VRBO is a better fit for us. I've decided to continue with my VRBO listing and I'll also pay the extra to get the broader coverage outside the USA to the Homeaway network of websites. I'll also keep listing on www.theluberon.com. We had 17 rentals this year, three through theluberon.com, five to friends or friends-of-friends, and nine through VRBO/Homeaway. Eight of our rentals were from outside the USA (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, France), including a Canadian couple who stayed a month. We already have several rentals for 2016 from Australians, so the visibility outside the USA is important to us.

I need to update the photos on VRBO and also update the info and photos on the page on our own website.

In the meantime, if you know anyone looking for a special place to stay in Provence....